Coming Soon
Home > Forum


Author Topic: AMA Petition  (Read 24738 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline burn1986

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 559
  • 1986 best year for CRs
    • View Profile
AMA Petition
« on: July 28, 2010, 11:08:22 AM »
Here is a link to an e-petition that I drew up:

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html

What do ya'll think?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 11:42:31 AM by burn1986 »

Offline Coop

  • Global Moderator
  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition Rough Draft
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2010, 11:13:30 AM »
Sounds ok to me, I signed it  :) .
- Mike - Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive.

Offline GlennC

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 239
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition Rough Draft
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 11:15:45 AM »
The only way to make privateers competitive is to get rid of the unfair handicap, And have equal displacement with no mention of two or four stroke!

Offline burn1986

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 559
  • 1986 best year for CRs
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition Rough Draft
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 11:36:01 AM »
My thought on equal displacements is this:

I want them. I fully agree with RupertXs study of this. In dealing with the AMA, I think that they will offer more resistance if presented with equal displacements at this point. If we present them with this small change in the rule, then this will allow more development for KTM, TM, Gas Gas, Husquvarna, etc. and further wedge the 2-stroke into the racing scene once again. Especially, when they start winning.

The only reason I say this is because I believe they would have approved larger-bored 2-strokes in 2005, but voted it down due to one of the member's desire for equal displacements (Jeff Ward indifferently voted against larger bore 2-strokes). This ruling effectively eliminated 2-strokes from racing competitively in the Pro ranks.


Offline JohnN

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1583
  • Two Strokes Rule!
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition Rough Draft
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 11:46:02 AM »
My thought on equal displacements is this:

I want them. I fully agree with RupertXs study of this. In dealing with the AMA, I think that they will offer more resistance if presented with equal displacements at this point. If we present them with this small change in the rule, then this will allow more development for KTM, TM, Gas Gas, Husquvarna, etc. and further wedge the 2-stroke into the racing scene once again. Especially, when they start winning.

The only reason I say this is because I believe they would have approved larger-bored 2-strokes in 2005, but voted it down due to one of the member's desire for equal displacements (Jeff Ward indifferently voted against larger bore 2-strokes). This ruling effectively eliminated 2-strokes from racing competitively in the Pro ranks.



Honestly, up to a 6 months ago, I was firmly stuck in the "It has to be equal displacement" argument. To the point of where if I were at the meeting, I would walk away if it didn't go equal displacement. After speaking to some very smart people about this, I now agree with Burn1986 and Rupert X.

We have to try a compromise to begin with. If a 25cc displacement increase for 125 two-strokes and a 50cc increase for 250 two-strokes were introduced, I truly believe that the scales would tip. Which would allow more Pro racers to compete on two-strokes.

If you think about it, this is what we all want.

My feeling is that the four-strokes are here to stay. Even if it were equal displacement, there are many that prefer the power delivery of them.

We want to ensure that the two-stroke remain a viable option. Taking small steps will help us reach our goal.
Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!

Offline Coop

  • Global Moderator
  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition Rough Draft
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 11:51:00 AM »
We want to ensure that the two-stroke remain a viable option. Taking small steps will help us reach our goal.

+1
- Mike - Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive.

Offline JETZcorp

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
  • Life, Liberty, and Horsepower
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 11:56:08 AM »
For me, as I've said before, I don't really look at it as a "save the two-stroke" thing.  When you say it like that, it sounds like the same sort of welfare program that brought the four-strokes back in the first place.  I say let all the motors compete at equal displacement and let the best (which is defined differently for different people) engine with the best rider win.  That's the principled stand, as opposed to the consequential stand.  There's nothing holy about the two-stroke that means it must be saved and put on life-support, as much as we like it.  If equal displacement were achieved and two-strokes were still losing (remember, that's an IF) would any of you want a handicap in favor of the two-strokes?  I certainly hope not.  But what we have to realize is that to the other side, they see the current situation as perfectly natural, and asking for a reduction of their handicap sounds like they're being handicapped against!  No wonder there's so much opposition.

Anyway, philosophical ramblings aside, this petition is agitating for something that is closer to the ideal, so of course I signed it.  A small handicap is better than a large one.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline 2smoker

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 12:32:15 PM »
I watched the last AMA race and some 250f riders had better laptimes than the 450f during practice... so why the hell we cannot go compete with a 250cc two stroke with the 250f?????????????? This is so corrupted.. All we need is a guy like Mike aboard the two50 project on the podium.. So the whole 4 stroke industry look bad .. What they gonna be their arguments??????  We need to reverse the situation.. a la Doug Henry back then.

This is when everything started..

1997 Las Vegas Supercross 1st 4-stroke win ! PART 1
1997 Las Vegas Supercross 1st 4-stroke win ! PART 2
1997 Las Vegas Supercross 1st 4-stroke win ! PART 3
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 12:38:29 PM by 2smoker »
Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline JohnN

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1583
  • Two Strokes Rule!
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2010, 12:36:38 PM »
Quote
so why the hell we cannot go compete with a 250cc two stroke with the 250f?

A great question, without an answer.

As I mentioned, we can beat out heads against the wall, scream, yell, fight, cry... no matter what, someone else makes the rules.

What if we could "sneak" in the back door and accomplish the same thing?

I signed the petition.

Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!

Offline RideRedMx2

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 157
  • HRC FACTORY RACING
    • View Profile
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000301824082&ref=profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 02:04:49 PM »
I signed it........And John your scarin me with that "sneak in the backdoor" thing   :o :P :P

Honda CR-250R #2.....Vet Class
CycleNation Powersports...Cycle Center Of Denton...HRC Factory Racing

Offline MCGRIDDLE_321

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 03:29:12 PM »
signed it... ;D

Offline meger z

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 03:53:04 PM »
DONE ;D

Offline 2smoker

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2010, 04:07:17 PM »
Done deal! Bring our sport back!
Formula over substance will ALWAYS sell more.

Offline JETZcorp

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
  • Life, Liberty, and Horsepower
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2010, 04:20:12 PM »
I still think that if we could somehow manage to start one series and really get behind it, we could seriously damage them.  Competition is what will lead anyone to better serve the needs of the consumer, and in this case the consumers are the riders, supporters, and fans of motorcycle sport.  Just look at what happened with AHRMA in the Northwest.  Dick Mann refused to satisfy the needs of the riders, and stuck pig-headedly to "vintage" (meaning pre-1974!) bikes into his organization, and then the evo (post-1974 twin-shock) had no series to ride in.  Unfortunately for Dick, most of the vintage riders and evo riders are the same people, with two bikes in the truck!  So as AHRMA started to wither and lose tracks, alternate series' came up, and now the Northwest has vintage (and evo) races every month of the year, on a variety of fun and appropriate tracks.

If we can do on the national pro level what was done on the Pacific Northwest vintage scene, I believe victory is assured.  The question is, can we do it?  Can we do one series and stick with it, and not get divided?  Can we get the sponsors, and the riders, and everything?  It's impossible to tell before it's done.  But just imagine sticking it to the man with privateer-friendly, equal-displacement racing.  And for some sprinkles on the top, how about we get rid of that "5 years old (or whatever it is) or newer" rule, to keep the factories on their toes and actually improving the bikes.  And if they fail at that, some really fast privateer on a Microblued, disc-braked, re-suspended '78 RM125 might just rattle a few cages. :D


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline TxTechRedRider

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Re: AMA Petition
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2010, 04:29:37 PM »
I signed also.
07 Honda Cr125.   
Petition signer #61