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Author Topic: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people  (Read 52588 times)

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Offline miedosoracing

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #195 on: August 18, 2011, 11:39:44 AM »
Not to mention that if you're used to two strokes (I've never owned a four stroke racer) even a non powervalved two stroke is controllable to ride and race. I loved my non powervalved bikes just as much as my 125.
Totally agree. The CR500AF was pretty smooth. The main problem it had, wasn't that it had a "powerband," it just had too much power.  So like I've said, a 350 2 stroke with balanced motor and electric start would probably kill all. As you go up in cc's, the less you need to have a powervalve. The torque and hp are fine without it. A DI would probably just help it, that much more...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 11:41:37 AM by miedosoracing »
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Offline ktm150rippa

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #196 on: August 18, 2011, 12:56:08 PM »
this may be a stupid question considering I'm a two stroke rider. I know how to change one put it back on in top end jobs all that jazz but what exactly is the powervalve like what is it's function? I know it opens at a certain rpm and gives you a major boost but what is it introducing more air/gas or what?

Offline snook620

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #197 on: August 18, 2011, 02:03:47 PM »
Not to mention that if you're used to two strokes (I've never owned a four stroke racer) even a non powervalved two stroke is controllable to ride and race. I loved my non powervalved bikes just as much as my 125.

I was just like that ^^ Up untill 2006 I had never rode a 4 stroke motocross bike. At a race one morning I completely mangled my YZ250 in the first practice. After alot of nagging from a friend I agreed to ride his 450 in late practice. It took about 2 laps to realize those big stupid sounding thumpers were alot easier to ride fast.

And personally I couldnt imagine riding a 2 stroke without an explosive powerband. Thats what makes it fun right?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 02:05:29 PM by snook620 »
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Offline snook620

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #198 on: August 18, 2011, 02:04:43 PM »
double post
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Offline burn1986

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #199 on: August 18, 2011, 02:19:39 PM »
Burn you've lost your marbles, two strokes are highly efficient in motocross there is no way around that. The engines are built to perform in this fashion. There's no way they are disappearing. Have you read my last few posts? I made them nice short and sweet rather than typing paragraphs about it, which I could very well do but the main point is that I am seeing a change! Less four strokes more two strokes! If Husa is only importing two strokes what does that tell you? They dont think they will make any sort of profit from their bangers. If they did see a profit in future from them, even a couple dollars you know they would have done it for the publicity, but they feel that they would be losing so much money its not even worth the publicity of shipping the bikes over. Obviously these guys spent a lot of time making this decision, you can't let that go to waste.

My bad

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #200 on: August 18, 2011, 03:44:53 PM »
this may be a stupid question considering I'm a two stroke rider. I know how to change one put it back on in top end jobs all that jazz but what exactly is the powervalve like what is it's function? I know it opens at a certain rpm and gives you a major boost but what is it introducing more air/gas or what?
It kinda does the same thing, if you would run a small carb on your bike. It would give you more low end, but it would take away topend, because the flow can only move so much air.  So when closed, it restricts the flow. (It also changes the sound waves, but that is more indepth) Too much air in a motor, when it is at low RPMs can work against you. So when you close that power valve at low RPMs, it limits the air flow, but when it opens up, with RPM or electronic valves, it starts flowing more air, thus the rise in HP at that point. Try running a 40mm carb on a 125. It will have 0 bottom, but if the motor can accept the 40mm flow at top end, that thing will sing. On the big bore motor, apples to apples like a 500AF vs 450F, you don't need it so much, because the torque of the 2 stroke will still give you enough low end to beat the 450F anywhere in the curve. One thing to keep in mind on the big 500AF's, is that they use the same carb as the 125's now a days. 38mm.  HP would be out of this world with a matching carb, unless you believe a 500 breaths the same as the 125s do.   I'll compare 250 2 strokes to 250 4 chokes instead of skewing things, because the people who keep on saying how great the 4 strokes are, always bring up how great the 450F is, blacking out the 250F as if it doesn't exist, like the media does Ron Paul. Even though as amateurs, we run cc vs cc mostly.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 04:01:19 PM by miedosoracing »
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Offline miedosoracing

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #201 on: August 18, 2011, 04:10:21 PM »
Made me think about something.   :P    I wonder how much HP a CR500 motor would have if you ran 3 38mm carbs like it probably could breath correctly. For low end, you could actually run them like a powervalve does. One opens at a time rated by RPM's.  100+ HP?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 04:15:07 PM by miedosoracing »
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Offline SachsGS

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #202 on: August 18, 2011, 06:43:35 PM »
My big Maicos are powervalved (I also have a non powervalved Maico 490 to compare to) and the powervalve gives the motors a silky feel to the power.The powervalve also allows the motor to produce more power but you don't really feel it as the power is so linear.

Some of the old big bore XTs and XLs ran a dual throat carb set up.

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #203 on: August 18, 2011, 06:56:17 PM »
My xr350r had dual carbs.
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Offline TMKIWI

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #204 on: August 18, 2011, 09:25:34 PM »
Look what happens when i go away for a few days.
14 pages of people talking shit.

I need more pain killers. ;)
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Offline burn1986

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #205 on: August 19, 2011, 05:12:27 AM »
It's all miedoso's fault ;D

Offline SwapperMX

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #206 on: August 19, 2011, 06:42:07 AM »
Man what happened around here. It seems that it isn't just 4 stroke lovers that are delusional !!

 ???  ???  ???

« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 07:32:56 AM by burn1986 »
Two Stroke - A Revolution or Extinction ??

You DECIDE !!

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #207 on: August 19, 2011, 08:08:49 AM »
Man what happened around here. It seems that it isn't just 4 stroke lovers that are delusional !!

 ???  ???  ???



Please list anything that I have said that aren't FACTS, regarding the dispute about what was posted with 2 vs 4 in racing>?  Thanks
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 08:15:10 AM by miedosoracing »
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Offline SwapperMX

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #208 on: August 19, 2011, 09:27:08 AM »
Man what happened around here. It seems that it isn't just 4 stroke lovers that are delusional !!

 ???  ???  ???



Please list anything that I have said that aren't FACTS, regarding the dispute about what was posted with 2 vs 4 in racing>?  Thanks
Hey man,
None of that was aimed at you at all. Dont know why you thought that. You are old school round here and have my respect. It was more an overview of a few of the threads as well as this one that I have read tonight. Props for your vital posts also !!
Two Stroke - A Revolution or Extinction ??

You DECIDE !!

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #209 on: August 19, 2011, 09:41:37 AM »
Oh, that's cool. I was just worried. I know I'm getting some guys on here, that are kinda raggin on me about how harsh I'm being about proving my point.  I just don't like to be lied too, or agenda's that try to lean things in a way to skew the truth.  Thanks on the vital thingy too. Although I am about ready to point out there, that since they can't post about 450's, they don't seem to have any ammo left.  I'm still waiting for an answer from both those guys claiming more reliability. 
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