4 $troke lovers= delusional people

[snook620]

I just don't like having bulls**t claims jammed down my throat whether they're pro 2 or 4. I love my 2t and thats all i'll ever own. I just reckon some people get too caught up in the pro 2t talk without any real basis for there opinions.

Thats exactly how I feel to. Its no secret I like both but when somone starts making rediculous claims I cant help but to disagree. Especially when were talking about racing.

[ACMX]

Some of you are giving the 4t too much credit. When looking at lap times done by 250v250 comparisons I don't believe the 250f will run faster laps '9 times out of 10'. Most riders you see will have a faster lap on a 250, although the 250 will also run the slowest lap. The 250f is more consistent, and easier to ride. Not faster.

Yes i agree, but winning races means being able to string consecutive fast laps together.
I totally agree that i could turn a couple super fast laps on my 2t but it's hard to do that for a whole race ie the challenge i spoke of earlier.
4bangers are easier to ride, so you can ride at a faster pace for longer.

Then again these were riders that were more used to four strokes. Take people who are used to two strokes who can string together six consistent laps. You have an all 'round faster bike.

[burn1986]

It fully amazes me that some people come on here and start praising 4-strokes (to any degree). Most of us have ridden a 4-stroke. Do you really think that you're going to convince us that 4-strokes are really that great? Sure a 450F is faster than a 250 and a 250F is faster than a 125. Don't you think we know this? Who cares if all the sudden you jumped on a 4-stroke and had your eyes opened to how much faster you were on a 4-stroke? Who are you preaching to? We know there's the OEM's wave of the future is high dollar, high tech 4-strokes. Do you think most of us on here don't see what's going on? Or that somehow we're off in a cave somewhere and need to be enlightened by a born again 4-stroke fanatic? Why do people like this even come on here and post?

I just don't like having bulls**t claims jammed down my throat whether they're pro 2 or 4.
I love my 2t and thats all i'll ever own. I just reckon some people get too caught up in the pro 2t talk without any real basis for there opinions.
I'm not saying i like or agree with any of whats happened in MX with the advent of high tech 4 stroke machines, i'm just trying to keep it real.
The technology and development of the 4's is now at such a level that they can compete on par with 2t's 250 vs 250. thats a fact, like i've said i believe most riders these days would be faster on a new 250F. now i'm not happy about that and there are a number of reasons for this and they all suck, but i think alot of people on here underestimate the new 4's and or overestimate the oldschool 2t's.
I'm also not factoring into my argument the cost or maintenance schedules of the 4's, these things all are contributing to the decline of the sport i reckon. All i'm doing is saying how it is on the track right now with the new 4's. They're fast and 250f's can definitely compete with and beat 250 2t's.

The same talk 5 years ago would have been welcomed. No all the sudden that 2-strokes are on the way out, to mention it at all, or give it any praise is ramming it down your throat. It almost seems that anyone who offers anything positive about a 2-stroke is now considered some kind of weird, radical, die hard or something. I don't think I'm ramming any bull---t claims down your throat, but we already know that 4-strokes are a way more advanced machine than the current 2-strokes. To have that many moving parts at a high rpm, all moving in sync is simply amazing. The fact that they don't need premix and have gotten as light as they are, and can turn lap times as good or faster than a equal 2-stroke is a marvel in technology. In fact, I got on an '06 KX450F and it seemed a little slow compared to my 07 CR250. After a few minutes I was amazed at how smooth it was. I knew that it was a high tech, high dollar machine and was well engineered, probably a little better engineered than my CR. I know this-we all do.

But my CR is no longer available, as are almost all OEMs 2-strokes. How long do you think Yamaha is going to keep making the YZ? KTM may hold on for a little while, as will Husaberg. The 2-stroke is disappearing. That's great if you want to rave about a machine that is widely available and is the future, but don't piously turn your nose just because we give an argument for the 2-stroke, which soon will not be available.

While 4-strokes bulldoze and bully consumers into submission, the attitude against a different machine than what is being rammed down our throats is becoming increasingly hostile.

[SachsGS]

2Ts disappearing? I don't think so.Why would any engineer attempt to accomplish with a 4T what can be done more simply and more effectively (and more cheaply) with a 2T? If you throw enough money at anything you will eventually accomplish the task though the more intelligent approach may be a different approach. DI 2Ts are already displacing 4T$ in the snowmobile and outboard markets,the DI moped will reign supreme and anyone seen a 4T chainsaw lately?

 The most elegant solution from the design vantage point is the direct injected two cycle engine,and once all of the economy of scale ducks are lined up - you can say goodbye to the 4T.   

[chump6784]

i dont see 2 strokes dying off at all. Eventually maybe yamaha and ktm will stop making MOTOCROSS 2 strokes but with ktm and now husaberg committed to the 2 strokes in enduro circles they wont die. the worst we will have to do is take an enduro model bike, strip it down, beef up the suspension, add some poke to the engine and we have a motocross 2 stroke again

[burn1986]

Obviously not all 2-stroke engines disappearing!

I meant 2-strokes from motorcycle racing! We're on the same team, right? For some reason, I'm feeling a little attacked simply because I gave a long reply to TotalNZ.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

...you can say goodbye to the 4T

I don't think so. There will always be a market for them - better or not. I just see more and more people coming back to the 2T and with the future bright with new technology for cleaning them up, even more will jump the fence.

Personaly, I'd like to see the 4$ go back to being 4T (like the XR and TT). Super reliable tractors, built for longevity. Not built to use and thow away.

[burn1986]

Well, actually 4Ts will shortly price themselves out of business. There will always be people willing to pay $10K for a dirt bike, but what do you do when you plop down that money and the thing has an engine failure. Not too many people are going to spend that much anyway, but how many can afford to spend another $2K to fix it.

If you don't think 2-strokes are disappearing from Professional MX and SX, then you need to look again. I don't want to come across as having no hope for the 2-stroke motorcycle or its further development, but right now, there is a huge force against the 2-stroke motorcycle. Those forces begin with Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and all the companies they pressure into submission (in Pro Racing).

The hope is that the high prices of 4-strokes combined with the economy will cause the OEMs and others to see the 2-stroke as a viable racing alternative, and begin pressuring the AMA to change the rules to allow it. Or for another series to rise up to include the 2-stroke.

[miedosoracing]

What's interesting to me, is people who prefer 4 strokes, post on a forum that is called twostrokemotocross.com  Just boggles my mind.    So who's trying to shove anything down who's throat? Seems they came here to tell us how good the 4 choke is...

[burn1986]

Exactly. No one caught that part of the post.

[burn1986]

The delusion of the 4-stroke can only last so long. They're just becoming too expensive. Not only the bikes, but the parts and service as well. Sure some will last for a good year before it craters, but the OEMs make up this money on the sticker price. Some will crater within 6 months, maybe sooner if they're raced hard. The prices of parts and bikes will only increase.

Sure 2-strokes are expensive too, but there is no hidden cost to make up. A 2-stroke is a way more simplistic and less expensive racing alternative, based on future racing and maintenance. They both require maintenance, but with less moving parts, you have less inherent expense.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

The other thing to look at is at the gates. Used to be that they had to limit the number of riders signing up for a national or world event. The rules limit it to 120 I believe but just watching the races on the World stage, they can't get 40 to the gate. It is a little better in the US but I don't remember seeing 90 riders sign up in a long time.

As more riders switch back the the 2T, more will appear on the gate.

If you look at the (more fair) off-road events, they are limiting gates in the hundreds. Alligator is 700, I believe and the GNCC's are down to something like 600. Baja and the other western races are the same way.

[ACMX]

Burn you've lost your marbles, two strokes are highly efficient in motocross there is no way around that. The engines are built to perform in this fashion. There's no way they are disappearing. Have you read my last few posts? I made them nice short and sweet rather than typing paragraphs about it, which I could very well do but the main point is that I am seeing a change! Less four strokes more two strokes! If Husa is only importing two strokes what does that tell you? They dont think they will make any sort of profit from their bangers. If they did see a profit in future from them, even a couple dollars you know they would have done it for the publicity, but they feel that they would be losing so much money its not even worth the publicity of shipping the bikes over. Obviously these guys spent a lot of time making this decision, you can't let that go to waste.

[miedosoracing]

Here's one thing that I don't think a lot of people understand, even on the 2 stroke favored side.  2 strokes, have powerbands, because in search for higher hp they lost lowend. To alievate that to some degree, they made a thing called a power valve.  Has anyone rode a KD/KE100?  While riding that bike, did you feel that the power was uncontrollable, and wanted to spin or let loose?  Have those same people rode a XR or CRF100 before?  How similar was this power? Pretty much same power characteristics but had more power?  I get made fun of, from my knowledge of these things, because of what the knowledge that most people have, is what they've learned from riding mx 2 strokes.  Meaning, they think all 2 strokes have to have race type powerbands. It can't be further from the truth.  If you look at two dyno charts of a 250F and a 250 2 stroke, the torque and hp are always higher on the 250 2 stroke. If you know anything about building a motor, you know you can always smooth out and lower both on a 2 stroke, and they will still be higher than that of a 250F.  Like TotalNZ stated, it is just not what most people, think they want. But those same people (not you Totalnz) will sell that 250 2 stroke and go buy a 250F.  If anyone doubts what I say, take your 250 2 stroke, and lock the powervalve closed (not open). Then get a flywheel weight.  Then jet it to run correctly.  You will be very suprised at the outcome.  That is a simplified version of the mods I do, thus, the power output may be lower than that of a 250F, but it will give the outcome of what I speak of. No all or nothing powerband, just smooth no spin riding. The best part of a 250 2 stroke modded to run like a 250F?  The motor will last even longer than it would have stock.

[ACMX]

Not to mention that if you're used to two strokes (I've never owned a four stroke racer) even a non powervalved two stroke is controllable to ride and race. I loved my non powervalved bikes just as much as my 125.