4 $troke lovers= delusional people

[burn1986]

I believe Swap is referring to my reference of 2-strokes disappearing from pro MX and SX.

Well, I didn't state myself too well in trying to defend 2-strokes to several 4-stroke lovers whom everyone seems to adore now.

To clarify, 2 strokes have been edged out of Pro MX and SX, basically from misinformation and eradication by the OEMs (of course this has come from pressuring the AMA to allow unfair rules for the 2-stroke in AMA Pro Racing). This has caused the 2-stroke to virtually disappear from AMA Pro MX and SX, and the GP classes. This is very disturbing and there has been an ongoing effort to get them back in (petition, letters, phone calls, etc).

The reason for this eradication put forth by the 4-stroke guys in this thread, is that 4-strokes are a far better racing machine, and if anyone could get on one they would see how great it is. Furthermore, they said that they wish that 2-strokers would quit ramming 2-stroke verbage down their throats, and just open their minds to the wonder of the 4-stroke.

I have agreed that many people can go faster on a 450F or 250F than their AMA legal 2-stroke counterparts (250 and 125). But I went on to mention that this is not the issue at hand, and that even though the 2-stroke IMO is a viable alternative to a high tech, high dollar 4 stroke, efforts need to be made to further the 2-stroke cause so that what has happened in Pro MX and SX won't spill over into the other disciplines, like Off-Road racing (which is strong for now).

[burn1986]

Hmmm... 11 pages so far about something that was created with the stroke of a pen.

The real issue is that through marketing the average joe believes that it's fair for a four-stroke to be larger than a two-stroke. While at the same time claiming they are better. Not sure how that adds up, but it's what's causing the rift even between fellow two-strokers.

Here's something that will cause a bit of trouble. I love four-strokes!

There is a place for them. While at the races I watched some of the older vet guys and their four-strokes will probably last for 10 years or more.

The problem is that the rule change created years ago has confused old timers and bamboozled younger racers who grew up after the four stroke "revolution" began.

Yes the speeds of the races is higher. This is due to the "straightening" of the tracks. There are very few "difficult" sections or tight corners, everything is sweeping and banked. Sort of like NASCAR.

In a conversation with Rich Winkler (the guy that builds the AMA Supercross tracks) the indoor tracks have been modified in a huge way to accommodate the four-strokes.

Keep in mind one important factor when discussing the difference between the two-strokes and four-strokes, there is no fair comparison. Why? It's all a marketing driven.

All pro racing is designed to sell bikes. Plain and simple. Currently the bikes the manufacturers are trying to sell are four-strokes. The good news for us two-stroke fans, is that it's backfiring like a rusty old Model T. The warehouses are full of four-strokes the manufacturers can't give away.

The future will be different.... get out your crystal ball to see what it's going to look like!

Good points, for sure.

[rbigair40]

this may be a stupid question considering I'm a two stroke rider. I know how to change one put it back on in top end jobs all that jazz but what exactly is the powervalve like what is it's function? I know it opens at a certain rpm and gives you a major boost but what is it introducing more air/gas or what?

you heard when you get it up on the pipe ?? that would be when you get the hit, and the pipe is made to deliver sound waves at a certain time .when the wave bounces back to the exhaust port it keeps the fuel charge from exiting the cylinder giving it better combustion ,power ,torque ,and emissions

[TMKIWI]

Just my 2 cents worth.
Why are we argueing over pro rules.?
I dont think it matters.
If the amature rules allow 250 = 250 that is where the change will come.
If Johnny is getting beaten on his CRF250 by his mate on his YZ/SX 250 then maybe he will change to a YZ/SX and Honda looses another rider.Then we have 1 more smoker in the feild. Then another and so on.
It will take awhile same as it took awhile for 4 strokes to take over.
The guy that race's will buy what is best for them, not what Dungey is riding.
What needs to happen is for a manufactor to support amatures on smokers, which might not be in their best interest now but it must be soon.
Is it best to sell some low cost smokers which they dont make much money on parts, Or have warehouses full of high cost 4 srokes that they dont make ANY money on.Can't make money if you don't sell them.

PS If you want to help ,Help the manufactors that still put effort into smokers.
TM/HUSKY/KTM/HUSABERG/GAS GAS.

[ACMX]

Not to mention that if you're used to two strokes (I've never owned a four stroke racer) even a non powervalved two stroke is controllable to ride and race. I loved my non powervalved bikes just as much as my 125.

I was just like that ^^ Up untill 2006 I had never rode a 4 stroke motocross bike. At a race one morning I completely mangled my YZ250 in the first practice. After alot of nagging from a friend I agreed to ride his 450 in late practice. It took about 2 laps to realize those big stupid sounding thumpers were alot easier to ride fast.

And personally I couldnt imagine riding a 2 stroke without an explosive powerband. Thats what makes it fun right?

No I've ridden plenty of four strokes. 250f's and 450's. More than one lap of course. All I can say is I hated the 250f I could NEVER race one of those. The 450 had a lot of power which I could see myself having fun on for a good ten to twenty minutes... But I can see myself being faster on the 250 and have more fun at the same time.

[miedosoracing]

Just my 2 cents worth.
Why are we argueing over pro rules.?
I dont think it matters.
If the amature rules allow 250 = 250 that is where the change will come.
If Johnny is getting beaten on his CRF250 by his mate on his YZ/SX 250 then maybe he will change to a YZ/SX and Honda looses another rider.Then we have 1 more smoker in the feild. Then another and so on.
It will take awhile same as it took awhile for 4 strokes to take over.
The guy that race's will buy what is best for them, not what Dungey is riding.
What needs to happen is for a manufactor to support amatures on smokers, which might not be in their best interest now but it must be soon.
Is it best to sell some low cost smokers which they dont make much money on parts, Or have warehouses full of high cost 4 srokes that they dont make ANY money on.Can't make money if you don't sell them.

PS If you want to help ,Help the manufactors that still put effort into smokers.
TM/HUSKY/KTM/HUSABERG/GAS GAS.

+1  But I really feel the biggest step is if a magazine ever does a full shootout.  Then it will be "check please waiter."

[citabjockey]

What needs to happen is for a manufactor to support amatures on smokers, which might not be in their best interest now but it must be soon.
Is it best to sell some low cost smokers which they dont make much money on parts, Or have warehouses full of high cost 4 srokes that they dont make ANY money on.Can't make money if you don't sell them.

Exactly. EVENTUALLY general folk who race on their own time will start to do the trophies per dollar calculation and determine that a 2T provides a better ratio.

PS If you want to help ,Help the manufactors that still put effort into smokers.
TM/HUSKY/KTM/HUSABERG/GAS GAS.

Right On! My next bike is one of these when they can be off-road (not just MX) year round in CA.