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Author Topic: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people  (Read 25894 times)

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Offline ktm150rippa

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4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« on: July 28, 2011, 07:53:48 PM »
Yesterday I had the pleasure of being invited to a private track and matt lemoine was there I wasn't riding, I was there helping my friend train. So while he was resting matt was out on the track which was awesome. But I was talkin to his dad and a few other guys there (they don't know i have a 2012 250sx) and two strokes came up in discusion and they were saying how they were gonna be exstinct soon and how matt's race bike would hand a 250 2 stroke its ass. And it made me start thinkin these are the same ppl that say 250 vs 250 isnt fair and that bs. So I thought of specific examples of them being completely wrong. I remember it was either last year or the year before that freestyle guy blake williams switched to the 250 2 stroke because he said he couldn't make some stuff on the 250f that he could on the 250. Do these ppl even have a clue? seriously. Then they were carrying on about this 100ft jump that they said a 125 couldn't make. It made me think of these 2 videos.


Motocross James Stewart Larocco's Leap


James Stewart pinnin it

Offline Shawn36

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 04:52:39 AM »
Well the freestyle comparison isn't all that close.  I see none of those guys attack corners before their ramps like a racer would, I have no doubt a 250F could make anything on a freestyle course. 

But you have to cut his family some slack probably.  Lemoine is young enough that if he raced 2-stroke big bikes at all it wasn't much, and who knows he if ever threw a leg over a 250 2-stroke.  Much like a relgious or political disscussion, all you can really do is smile and nod.  Nothing you say is going to change their minds. 

Offline snook620

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 09:03:55 AM »
For those guys raw horsepower isnt everything. The traction, lighweight chassis, and overall better handling of a fully built 250f could possably turn faster lap times then a 250 2 stroke with someone like Matt Lemonie riding it.

Pro's are on a different level, unlike us they can actually use 100% of the motorcycle. For your average local the 250 2 stroke is the ultimate lites class bike.
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Offline WoodsRiderParts

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2011, 03:35:06 PM »
The 250 2T has the power advantage...the 250 4T has the traction advantage...in the right hands either bike is better based on conditions and terrain.

Luke
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Offline ACMX

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 02:34:35 PM »
For those guys raw horsepower isnt everything. The traction, lighweight chassis, and overall better handling of a fully built 250f could possably turn faster lap times then a 250 2 stroke with someone like Matt Lemonie riding it.

Pro's are on a different level, unlike us they can actually use 100% of the motorcycle. For your average local the 250 2 stroke is the ultimate lites class bike.

The key word here is modern. A modern 250 would probably smear a modern 250f ... but there are none.
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Offline factoryX

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 06:16:01 PM »
250 4t vs. 250 2t isn't logical, two different bikes. On very tight course the 250 4t would have huge chance of winning, but then again so would a 85cc or 125cc 2t. It all comes down to track layout, and how tight it is, because a 250 4t can pull faster lap times than the 450 4t and we all know which is more powerful. Tune down the 250 2t to the same level as the 250 4t and it would have twice if not three times the torque, which makes the 250 4t useless.


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline ACMX

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2011, 11:53:44 AM »
That is very true but I think what we are talking about in this case is the outright power of the bike, because in the original post of the topic, he is discussing jumps that people are saying a 125 can not do... That is a power factor. Because we all know an 85 couldnt do loroccos leap, but  a 125 can.
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Offline ktm150rippa

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2011, 01:34:25 PM »
you got it acmx, I just think some ppl weren't around when 2 strokes were the cream of the crop and when they talk about 125's its like they somehow think its some whimpy little bike. Now I understand it'll most likely be harder to clear some jumps compared to a 250f but that doesnt mean a 125 is a dog.

Offline factoryX

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2011, 01:55:02 PM »
Didn't TP use a rm125 for his backflip 360 attempt or what ever the hell it was? I think 125's are plenty capable.  As for out right power, its no comparison. A pro riding a 250 4t will have similar if not faster lap times than a decent rider riding a 250 2t, but when a pro rides a 250 2t its no comparison, its out right slaughter.


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline snook620

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 04:21:08 PM »
Didn't TP use a rm125 for his backflip 360 attempt or what ever the hell it was? I think 125's are plenty capable.

He rolled down a 70 foot starting ramp at the x games....thats alot different than trying to clear a huge triple right out of a turn.

when a pro rides a 250 2t its no comparison, its out right slaughter

I disagree. Do you think they could put Blake Baggett on a 250 2t next weekend and he would still win? No
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 04:26:54 PM by snook620 »
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Offline ACMX

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 04:35:15 PM »
when a pro rides a 250 2t its no comparison, its out right slaughter

I disagree. Do you think they could put Blake Baggett on a 250 2t next weekend and he would still win? No
[/quote]

Thats simply because he is not used to riding a 250 2t. Put an experienced 250 2t rider out there of equal skill and my guess says on most tracks the smoker will take it.
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Offline TMKIWI

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 05:26:02 PM »
but when a pro rides a 250 2t its no comparison, its out right slaughter.

Rubbish.

The lap times between 250F's, 250 smokers & 450's is not that great a gap.

When DK won the NZ Lites championship this year on a YZ250 he did not slaughter the opposition.
He had some 1st,2nd,3rd & 4ths etc.
He was racing some fast Aussies on factory bikes. His YZ had a Pro-Circuit engine & was Ohlined up.
It showed that a worked 250 of both types were competitive.
The bikes were very even on the track.
It's time for 250cc to mean 250cc again.

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Offline snook620

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 06:43:34 PM »
Thats simply because he is not used to riding a 250 2t. Put an experienced 250 2t rider out there of equal skill and my guess says on most tracks the smoker will take it.

You may be right, I think it would depend on the track and conditions. If the track was fast, tacky and realitivly smooth I can see a 250 2 stroke winning a lites moto with someone like Blake or Dean riding it, but when its rough hardpacked and slick the smaller 4t would still be my pick to win the moto.

Now that were talking about it Id love to see real racing results! Someone send mitch and email  :P
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Offline SachsGS

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 08:39:01 PM »
I think we may be comparing apples to oranges here,the 4T$ have had a decade of constant development vs. sporadic,minor improvements for the 2Ts.A modern direct injected 2T that had the benefit of an R and D budget similar to a current 4T would,in my opinion,lay waste to the competition.

Offline Suzuki TS250/185

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Re: 4 $troke lovers= delusional people
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2011, 09:48:04 PM »
Thats simply because he is not used to riding a 250 2t. Put an experienced 250 2t rider out there of equal skill and my guess says on most tracks the smoker will take it.

You may be right, I think it would depend on the track and conditions. If the track was fast, tacky and realitivly smooth I can see a 250 2 stroke winning a lites moto with someone like Blake or Dean riding it, but when its rough hardpacked and slick the smaller 4t would still be my pick to win the moto.

Now that were talking about it Id love to see real racing results! Someone send mitch and email  :P

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