AMA Petition

[opfermanmotors]

The 250 and 320 have the same stroke, 70mm.

[Super Trucker]

If  the riders were not scared and they started a  riders union years ago, they could,ve  stopped  the 4-st. take over. I  know guys that drove for the mx factories, they all quit  and go to nascar. Because it,s union everybody make more money. There,s  no way Doug Henry  would have raced the 400f in 1997, if there was  a riders union. At the nationals if  they dropped  the womens class  and  had a  125 class  with no age limit, would be smart. Nothing against women, but  a top 5 girl  in a national, is dead last in a  local a class race. Back  when it was all 2-st. at the nationals, the 250 class just  cruised  the last 10 minutes,there  pace dropped way off, if there was a  close battle  they stayed on it, but that was rare. The  top 25 in the 125 class  stayed  on it to the finish, 125,s better racing, everyones favorite  class  to watch.

[burn1986]

Yep, I'll agree with that, the 125s were badness. RC, Cooper, Henry, Lamson, Bradshaw, Stewart, Omara made it happen on the tiddlers.

[Chris2T]

I totally agree with the spirit of bearoso's argument. i can't properly express my disgust of having to grant the pathetic 4 strokes a handicap. Yes PATHETIC, because we would not be having this conversation if 4 strokes were forced to go head to head with 2 strokes. I do respect that 4 strokes are not the slugs they used to be. But in fair competition, the top riders on 2 strokes versus the top riders on 4 strokes would be a rout. Don't believe me? Pit a KTM150SX engine against a Honda CRF150R engine and let me know the results

With that said, i signed the petition. Because at this point, unless you're living under a rock, the AMA and the manufacturers have made it clear THEY DON'T WANT 2 STROKES. So do we allow the 2 strokes to be forced into extinction and just walk away with the smug satisfaction that we know 2 stroke are superior? Or do we continue to fight the good fight, advancing a little bit at a time, biting our tongues until a new generation of thinking takes over the AMA?  Yeah, i signed it. As desperate and sad as it sounds, i'll take what i can get

Chris

[miedosoracing]

Sorry to chime in again.    If only the AMA rules wouldn't have been changed in the 90's for Husky's, KTM's etc. Then we would have fair rules still.  The AMA had chosen 360cc 4 strokes vs 250 2 strokes back in the early 70's or late 60's.  If that would have remained, we would still not be cc for cc but would be in most peoples minds equal still.  cc vs cc would never happen, no matter what, even if we went back to the 70's rules. 

[burn1986]

I totally agree with the spirit of bearoso's argument. i can't properly express my disgust of having to grant the pathetic 4 strokes a handicap. Yes PATHETIC, because we would not be having this conversation if 4 strokes were forced to go head to head with 2 strokes. I do respect that 4 strokes are not the slugs they used to be. But in fair competition, the top riders on 2 strokes versus the top riders on 4 strokes would be a rout. Don't believe me? Pit a KTM150SX engine against a Honda CRF150R engine and let me know the results

With that said, i signed the petition. Because at this point, unless you're living under a rock, the AMA and the manufacturers have made it clear THEY DON'T WANT 2 STROKES. So do we allow the 2 strokes to be forced into extinction and just walk away with the smug satisfaction that we know 2 stroke are superior? Or do we continue to fight the good fight, advancing a little bit at a time, biting our tongues until a new generation of thinking takes over the AMA?  Yeah, i signed it. As desperate and sad as it sounds, i'll take what i can get

Chris

I think you've hit the nail on the head at how we all feel.

[motoman465]

I enthusiatically signed the petition!!!  The AMA has made their point that equal displacement will not happen...hell, their wallets depend on it.  Maybe a compromise as suggested in the petition is the answer...for now...at least we stand to get a "foot" in the door!!!

[burn1986]

I spread it around.  I also put it in this video, so hopefully u should get some signatures from it I have almost 400 who watch my crap.

AMA Petition Unequal 2 Stroke Displacement Professional Motocross

Hey Opferman, thanks for the video. That bike runs perfect. Thanks for the help. Hopefully this will spark not only two strokes but nationals and racing as well, expecially if they start winning.

[keeptwostrokesalive]

Is their any way we can get motocrossactionmag.com to promote this petition.  MXA are supporters of two strokes so i think they would be willing to put it up on their site.  We need to try and contact a lot of the big dirt bike websites and try and get them to promote this petion on their site.

[JETZcorp]

Good idea.  John, quick, to the stroke cave!!

Woah, that didn't sound right.

[bearorso]

Meido, I understand a lot more than you , it appears.

Noise - yes - make a real world Db ruling, and a 2t will easily pass it - a 4t will find it bloody hard to get down to it, without stuffing the power up. But, if a company solved that, more power to them - bad pun intended.

85 to 250f too much - umm, yes - that's why I've advocated 125 racing ( make it 150, so Honda can race........as I've written many times), 250, and Open Class (with the various interpretations of open, to be considered).

Honda Is the 4 stroke company - always have been , always will be. Anyone with a bit of knowledge knows that. Let them continue with that . There's plenty to come from 4ts, but they will just get more complicated, and expensive. Just as modern 2ts, as they are developed, will become - but the scales will always tilt to the 2t, with weight, simplicity, power and torque, cost in $$$$, and pollution (both of production and use, with the giant leaps forward that modern 2ts show).


Real world results that are provable, should be used to get rid of non -equivalency - 2ts, as I and others have noted - have not destroyed the 4ts, nor "embarrassed" them. Sprouting on about how 2ts will destroy 4t at equal displacement doesn't help our cause. As I've written , no ones going to pull a modern 2t out of their arse the minute equivalency becomes across the board. It will take a few seasons to rectify the current, rule created 2t / 4t imbalance. But it will happen. Given equivalency.

Appeasement never works. I think there's a heck of a Stockholm Syndrome going on within some of our 2t ranks.

Once again, I admire peoples enthusiasm and belief in this 144 /300 request, but I feel it is entirely misplaced. We'd be better off, petitioning for what really should happen - Equivalency. It's got just as much chance as being granted as the 144/300 begging has. With  a chance of correcting our sports problems. 144/300, will not help at all, and , I fear, really help put the final nail in the coffin for 2ts.

Simply put, a petition should be for equivalency.

[TMKIWI]

Here are our rules. Pretty simple and clear 

http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2010_MoMS_Appendix_D.pdf

You yanks need to get your act together 

[JETZcorp]

If, as you say, equivalency has the same chance of success as 144/300 at this point in time, then we should just give up on both.  Experience from the past has shown us that the AMA is not prepared to do that.  This isn't exactly the first time someone has tried to change the displacement rule.

If this petition fails to warrant a response from the AMA, then I think it would be time to take another crack and building up some sponsors and making an alternate racing series.  And, if we're going to try and do that right, we need to pull a complete 180 from everything the AMA does that pisses riders off.  Things like the unfair displacement rules that skew things in favor of four-strokes, unfair production minimums that keep out smaller manufacturers, treating the race as a "show" and yelling at privateers when they get in the way of the big TV stars, and an endless web of indecipherable bureaucratic nonsense in the rulebook.  And, although this was a long time ago, the AMA really dropped the ball on the Phantom Duck issue, even when they were legally in the right.  If we make our own organization, it should be run by riders, and for riders.  That's what made Dirt Bike Magazine great during its glory years, that's what brought the Hammer and Tongs vintage circuit into the the top spot in the Pacific NW, and I think it can work for us if the AMA continues to let the motocross community down.

Sorry for the rant, but there was a soap box and a megaphone sitting right there!

[ACMX]

I just posted up a link to the petition on every one of my videos (involving a real life dirt bike)

Youtube.com/MxRider721

[2smoker]

I just posted up a link to the petition on every one of my videos (involving a real life dirt bike)

Youtube.com/MxRider721

lol A REAL LIFE DIRT BIKE!!!!!!!!!!! Good one!!   
Yosemitebear Mountain Giant Double Rainbow 1-8-10