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Author Topic: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs  (Read 6064 times)

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Offline burn1986

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Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« on: June 15, 2010, 11:39:02 AM »
I posted a couple of weeks ago about Dirt Rider mag pursuing a shootout including a YZ144 and KTM150 against the Big 5 250Fs.

The question now is -
How much modifications should be done on the bikes?
Who should do the work?
Should there be a price cap? If so, how much?

I know we kind of went over this earlier but it is now in the final stage before getting the bikes together.

This is my take on this:

The bikes should remain stock except for exhaust (or no exhaust for that matter). I realize that the KTM150 and YZ144 could be ported with head mods for the price difference between them and the 4 strokes, but I don't think this would set up a fair playing field. I don't think it really matters who works on these bikes if we decide they could be modified.

Offline eprovenzano

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 12:02:34 PM »
Personally I don't think they should be modded.  I think it should be a stock to stock test.  If you wish to change exhausts, all the bikes should get the same treatment.  Try to keep the bikes as a young (cheap) privateer would ride / race them.

just my $.02
Eric Provenzano
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Offline metal_miracle

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 12:25:41 PM »
I think all should be stock

only allowing to change jetting, gearing

Offline Chris2T

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 12:28:20 PM »
Personally, since the KTM is the only "stock" 150 i'd like to see it take on all the other 250F's, no mods. And i'm especially interested in how it does against it's own KTM cousin 250F

Offline SwapperMX

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 03:18:16 PM »
I disagree, I think you should be doing it with race set-up bikes. That stock test has been done, and quite a few times. The end result, the two strokes are fun, but to be competitive you need to race a four stroke. That pretty much sums up the test results I have seen from the mags that have done this test. I think to prove to the general consensus that the two stroke is a viable option, you should be testing set up race bikes, and then have lap times showing how close or how much better the two stroke is. This would make riders and racers consider the two stroke as an option when buying their new bike much more than having read a stock bike test. No one races a bike in standard trim. PLUS, how much better would it be for you to be riding factory prepped race bikes.  :P
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Offline socalcajun

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2010, 04:01:39 PM »
I think instead of the typical magazine shootout I would rather see a head to head comparision. Line them up at the gate full mod then lets see what's what. Likes been mentioned. What are we going to find out that we don't already know from the basic shootout.
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Offline 2smoker

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 04:06:26 PM »
Kind of sick of this 4 stroke versus 2 stroke.. I which one day one rider will show up at the National or Supercross and kill all the 4 junk competition so we can all go back to 2 stroke :) Just like Doug Henry did on his 4 poke. I can live without the 4 stroke. We had the Nationals here in the city last week, I didn't go.. I think a super hero on 2 stroke is the real solution to the problem because I don't see the AMA and the manufacturers changing their mind so far.. How bad they would look if somebody show up on a 2 banger and win week after week after week.. Nobody would be able to bullshit..not even the announcers on Speed. Nobody in this 4 stroke corruption business would be able to hide something.. I hope Mike get really good results so project two 50 end up with more support..!!! Best initiative ever!
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Offline socalcajun

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2010, 04:35:48 PM »
Kind of sick of this 4 stroke versus 2 stroke.. I which one day one rider will show up at the National or Supercross and kill all the 4 junk competition so we can all go back to 2 stroke :) Just like Doug Henry did on his 4 poke. I can live without the 4 stroke. We had the Nationals here in the city last week, I didn't go.. I think a super hero on 2 stroke is the real solution to the problem because I don't see the AMA and the manufacturers changing their mind so far.. How bad they would look if somebody show up on a 2 banger and win week after week after week.. Nobody would be able to bullshit..not even the announcers on Speed. Nobody in this 4 stroke corruption business would be able to hide something.. I hope Mike get really good results so project two 50 end up with more support..!!! Best initiative ever!

for sure. yeah the industry has moved on but i'd still like to see some hot shot on a fire breathing smoker break it off in some 4 beast tail pipe.
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Offline Watson777

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2010, 05:46:44 PM »
I think they should be done in a realistic race set up that a privateer would be able to run... I'd love to do some of the testing too! I'm still looking for a 125 (144/150) for the Pala National  ;)

Offline riffraff

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2010, 06:48:18 PM »
Well a YZ144 isn't stock to start with so it should get the mods that anybody putting the money into a big bore kit would do and supposedly the KTM comes stock with all the hot stuff so leave it stock
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Offline maicoman009

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2010, 07:15:07 PM »
If it was going to be a magazine test I would want MXA to do the test & I would have to go with enprovenzanos idea & make the bikes all be stock other than maybe a pipe and some jetting,but I also like 2smokers idea too!Who here would'nt like to see a hotshot pro MX racer break out a nice new moded,built to the hilt 2-stroke and do the same thing Doug Henry did back in 1997 on that Yamadawg yzm-400 4-choke?It's been 13+ years since that sickening day & I think it's about time for a little 2-stroke redemption! If there's any pro moto-x racers out there reading this post think about this post and this web site and give it a shot!Let's face it,we all know history is known to repeat itself and I have to say it's about the time to do so...!!! :P  >:D GET EVIL ABOUT IT!

Offline JohnN

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2010, 03:32:37 AM »
Quote
I'm still looking for a 125 (144/150) for the Pala National

It would be cool if you could use the 144/150 at a Pro National, but it's against the rules.

As for comparison tests, there's not really a good way to do it... a stock two-stroke at this point is mostly a 10 year old design. Comparing handi-capped machines brings up the inevitable question of which handi-cap to use?

My personal suggestion is to build "race-ready" machines and then compare. The biggest problem is that even if the test riders are similar in riding ability and style, they may have different preferences. This would completely negate the test altogether.

By the way I really like this test... this is probably the closet to being a "fair" test of the machines.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/11/125mx-com%E2%80%99s-2009-shootout-tm-vs-yz-vs-ktm/
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Offline juliend

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2010, 05:07:09 AM »
Quote
Nobody would be able to bullshit..not even the announcers on Speed. Nobody in this 4 stroke corruption business would be able to hide something..

LOL, it'd be "And just look at that little two stroke go!"



Offline Watson777

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2010, 06:40:11 AM »
The 144 is legal in pro racing as of last year unless they changed the rules again for 2010 it is 144cc in pro racing and 155cc in amtr.

Offline JohnN

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Re: Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2010, 06:47:37 AM »
The 144 is legal in pro racing as of last year unless they changed the rules again for 2010 it is 144cc in pro racing and 155cc in amtr.
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