Dirt Rider Mag 144s vs 250Fs

[burn1986]

The 144 is legal in pro racing as of last year unless they changed the rules again for 2010 it is 144cc in pro racing and 155cc in amtr.

Are you sure of this? I know the AMA rulebook only allowed up to 125cc 2 stroke in the 250F class. If this is changed then this will be a monumental change. I hope you're right, and I would be very interested to hear where you got this info.

As far as the shootout, I initially wanted to see this as stock against stock. But I looked up the prices and there is about $1000 difference between the 4 stroke and 2 stroke. I think it would be reasonable to apply this to the 2 strokes. Here is a cost breakdown:

250Fs-
SXF 7198
KXF 6999
RMZ 6699
YZF 6990
CRF 7199
144s-
SX 6198
YZ125 6585 (6090 plus bore/ porting head mods 495 - Eric Gorr)

According to Pro Circuit, here is the price break down:

Motor - porting and head mods
4 stroke 549.95
2 stroke 329.95

Pipe and Silencer
4 stroke 779.95
2 stroke 349.90

I think we can safely say that the average price difference between a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke is $1000. I think that several people have mentioned that the price difference between the two should be applied to the 2 stroke. It sounds like the consensus would be to have the 2 strokes ported w/head mods and pipe/silencer. This would leave $322 for the KTM and $156 for the YZ. This would be enough for the suspension fo rthe KTM and limited funds for the YZ.

[eprovenzano]

I kike Watson's idea, but if we mod the smoker, then we have to hear the strokers complain, its not fair, you modded the smoker, then we should get to mod the stroker. 

After some thought, what I'd really like to see, it 2 comparrisons.

1st, stock bike with proper jetting, pipe, gearing, basic adj to the suspenders, etc.  Basicaly what the weekend amature will be racing / riding.    2nd, lets mod and then compare apples to apples.  Yes its costly, but now we get to see the full picture.

Now the other problem...  how many riders are comfortable / compentent on the smokers.  Most pro riders have not ridden one in quite a while, and have forgotten how to ride the smoker....  so I think it should be more of a long term test, then a one day and done....

just my $.02

[burn1986]

Yep, good point

[CCOADY454]

I think an even better comparison would be to start off with equal budgets like around $10,000-$12,000 per bike.  Buy the bikes, compare them in stock trim.  Then, take the leftover money and apply to mods and then compare again.  I think with the extra leftover money, the 2 stroke would get more bang for the buck.  The outcome could be enough to sway opinions, especially for the privateers.

[Watson777]

I don't remember where I heard about pro racing going to 144. I think I should run the YZ144 at Pala anyway. If by chance I did make it I highly doubt anyone would have me pulled down to check. Everyone would just be stoked on a 125 making a national. Pala is gonna be hard though in all the sand. A 250F eats 125s alive in the sand. As for testing them. You are right there aren't many pros that ride 125s anymore. Lucky for me, we still have my wifes old 05 running strong so I get to ride on as often as I want to. Well as often as she let's me anyway.

[TMKIWI]

Do the test here in NZ.
We have a 125 only class, so have heaps of riders used to them.

[KXwestYZ]

The 144 is legal in pro racing as of last year unless they changed the rules again for 2010 it is 144cc in pro racing and 155cc in amtr.

when you say at least for now do you think they may reverse the rule potentially?

[JohnN]

when you say at least for now do you think they may reverse the rule potentially?

I sure hope so!!

Do the test here in NZ.
We have a 125 only class, so have heaps of riders used to them. Smiley

TMKIWI - That's a great idea! Would you mind setting it all up, then I'll fly down to write the article!! 

[TMKIWI]

Ill see what i can do 
Are you guys alright with drinking 5% beer the night before a test 

We could organise it to coincide with the Rugby world cup. But thats a year away.

[MCGRIDDLE_321]

would you really get caught for racing a 144 in the pro class?? if anything you would probably get overlooked for racing a 2stroke they wouldnt even care....

[Watson777]

No.... you wouldnt get caught. That was my point. Guaranteed I could run the 144 and no one would ever think twice. I finally got back on my 2-stroke today after 9 months on a 450! Soooooooooo excited!

[burn1986]

I am still waiting to hear back from Jimmy Lewis at Dirt Rider at what kind of budget this shootout will have. But from the responses I have received from this forum and several others, it seems that a stock shootout is what the majority of readers want, and the most fair way to compare the bikes. Then have a modified shootout if the budget permits.

[motoman356]

the problem with a stock shoot out is it has been done already. i cant remember of the top of my head but i remember reading a shoot out betweeen a 144 and 250f not to long ago.

whats needed is a real shootout in a situation that matters with race ready bikes. pick a rider and get two bikes set up with basic susp, motor and pipes. i know its on the pricey side. heck even just basics like pipe and suspension plus any ergos to be closer to what a local would use

i think instead of bringing back the 125 why not we try to push to allow bigger 2 strokes in the 250f/125 class but you would need to make a real world test
why would you show up to a Pro race on a stock ass bike?

[burn1986]

There was one in Australia, but nothing here in the US. The test riders even consisted of a girl and no expert level riders.

[Hondacrrider]

There was one in Australia, but nothing here in the US. The test riders even consisted of a girl and no expert level riders.

Yes, but I found it to be a good test, because something like 5 out of 6 riders came out of that test with 2 to 3 seconds faster lap times on the 144