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Offline SachsGS

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2012, 03:21:47 PM »
I don't buy into the 2T vs. 4T debate.First off,it seems to me that more and more the tracks are being designed with 4T$ in mind and,secondly,if 2Ts had benefited from the same level of R&D development and overall investment as the lawnmowers over the last decade,I think the results would be very different.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline tweetakt

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2012, 04:40:13 PM »
I've been riding motorcycles for 33 years. I just started "racing" 2 years ago. I started on a 02 RM250....and I fought that bike EVERY race. It tried to kill me repeatedly!

So I bought a KTM250F...WOW what a difference, I went from back of pack to top 3 finisher.....but I friggin HATE 4-strokes....

So after 1.5 years on the thumper I jumped back to a 02 CR250R.....and went right back to the back of the pack...candlesticking damn near every jump and I feel like I went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson!

WTH am I doing wrong????   Same track...same times....same class (age group). Thing scares the crap out of me because the power hits so hard and out of nowhere!

Stock bike...FMF Fatty pipe.

HELP !!!!!

Skidmark


You could always re-gear by taking a tooth off the back to mellow it down a bit.  Also, your suspension is old and probably worn.  It'd fix suspension; you'd be shocked at what a difference it can make.

Don't fear the power.  It's your friend.   :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline snook620

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« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2012, 05:40:46 PM »
Welcome to the real world. Just about everyone is faster on a 4stroke, they're great bikes.
If winning races is your sole goal, and you don't have the time to practice and aren't super bike fit with fair bit of natural skill then stick with your 250f.
There are countless reasons i'd never buy or race a 4banger but i've ridden enough new ones to know how good they are.

Hit the nail on the head. For strokes are good for one thing, racing.

I tried to go back to racing a 250 2 stroke after a couple years on a 450 and had a simillar experience. Im sure in time I could have relearned to ride the smoker but why? It was FAST, skechy, dangerous and flat wore me out. Now that I mostly play ride, Im looking for another 250 2t.

edit: damn I cant type today
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline chump6784

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2012, 08:00:03 PM »
Huh thats weird... could've sworn I posted this...

It sounds to me like you are riding the 2 stroke like the 4 stroke. you gotta ride a 250f like a 125 to get the most out of it. by that i mean wide open, bouncing off the rev limiter. when i was getting used to my 250 i often exited corners a gear high so it was off the pipe and then roll the power on so it would build into the meat. i still use this sometimes if the track is slick or hard packed. after a while i got used to the hit of a 250 and now i couldn't imagine riding a 4 stroke.

i always rode 2 strokes and raced 125's for a while but then had 10 years off riding. when i came back it was on a 250 2 stroke and it did take a little while to not only get back into the swing of riding but also used to the extra power i had never used before.

as the old saying goes, sometimes you have to go slow to go fast

I'm not sure if you're directing that at me or not so I'll cover it just in case you are. My bike is very mid range and top end. By that I mean the midrange is very aggressive and the top end feels outright explosive. I ride it in the midrange to increase engine life as long as possible.
Nope i was referring to the OP, not everything is about you
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Dirtsaw

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2012, 11:41:26 PM »
Someone earlier posted that a 250f has 45 HP?  When did this happen?  Maybe a pro circuit pro bike with an expected engine life of 5 hours.  Aren't stock 250f's more like 35 HP?

I've ridden many a 450 in the woods and I absolutely can't stand them.  I'm slower then shit on them and they turn like a friggin tank.  Ride your 250 a gear higher in the corners.  Drag your rear brake to the apex of the turn then start rolling on the throttle until you are wide open at the exit and you'll have no more problems.  Throttle control is the problem here, not the bike.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline ford832

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2012, 01:17:35 AM »
I've been riding motorcycles for 33 years. I just started "racing" 2 years ago. I started on a 02 RM250....and I fought that bike EVERY race. It tried to kill me repeatedly!

So I bought a KTM250F...WOW what a difference, I went from back of pack to top 3 finisher.....but I friggin HATE 4-strokes....

So after 1.5 years on the thumper I jumped back to a 02 CR250R.....and went right back to the back of the pack...candlesticking damn near every jump and I feel like I went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson!

WTH am I doing wrong????   Same track...same times....same class (age group). Thing scares the crap out of me because the power hits so hard and out of nowhere!

Stock bike...FMF Fatty pipe.

HELP !!!!!

Skidmark

OMG skidmark,you're such a pussy :o Well I guess there's no shame in admitting it.Actually,that's wrong-SHAME!SHAME!  ;D
For me,I like the 2t's,and I loved the power of my 550 Berg.That said,I can do my fastest lap times on friends 250f's that I am not used to riding.If I was racing mx competitively,that's what I'd have.
Why try to change a 250 2t into a 250 4t? If you're fastest on a 250f,race that-there's no point in getting poor results or getting frustrated unnecessarily. If you have the $$,buy a used 2t for fun days-or wait until your race days mostly turn into fun ride days to buy a 2t. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline twosmoke595

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 01:29:26 AM »
alright everybody, take a chill pill, stu go take a cold shower and go watch the sun go down, maybe a nice massage would help as well, i'd like everybody to stop attacking each other right now, whether or not you meant to doesn't matter, also i'd like people to not have such a short fuse, there's no reason why we can't be civil and still DISCUSS not ARGUE about things.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline citabjockey

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2012, 01:44:20 AM »
There is one reason to try to make a 250 2T behave on the track like a 4T for the original poster, it may well have faster lap times and because it is a 2T the hours spent maintaining it go down compared to a 250F. Plus its fun to be different (at least in my book).

So if the suspension is up to snuff, the motor hit can be brought into line a bit and with some more practice maybe the results would get better. I still have a tough time picturing switching to a well setup 250 2T would take you from the podium positions to darn near last place. There sure seems like there may be something wrong with that bike? Of course it seems like you have 2 sample points, the CR250 and the RM250 with similar results. Maybe you are just more comfy on a KTM? Anyway for you to sample a KTM250SX?

MXA's shootout between the 250 and 250F from some time back seems to say that the fastest and the slowest lap times were on the 2T. More skill required and more of a penalty for making mistakes but there is an advantage when you can put all that horsepower to the ground and when you can take an inside line the 4T cannot. That said all the lap times were effectively inseparable between the two bikes for their test riders of all levels. Seems like this flies in the face if your experience too. It just should not be THAT bad.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Yamaha CT3, RT3, MX125, SC500, Toy Prius, Diesel F250 (it all balances out)

Offline scotty dog

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2012, 01:49:57 AM »
I've been riding motorcycles for 33 years. I just started "racing" 2 years ago. I started on a 02 RM250....and I fought that bike EVERY race. It tried to kill me repeatedly!

So I bought a KTM250F...WOW what a difference, I went from back of pack to top 3 finisher.....but I friggin HATE 4-strokes....

So after 1.5 years on the thumper I jumped back to a 02 CR250R.....and went right back to the back of the pack...candlesticking damn near every jump and I feel like I went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson!

WTH am I doing wrong????   Same track...same times....same class (age group). Thing scares the crap out of me because the power hits so hard and out of nowhere!

Stock bike...FMF Fatty pipe.

HELP !!!!!

Skidmark
Maybe its a throttle control issue skidmark? I think some one has mentioned it already, riding a 250 smoker like a 250 f like you might be will be hard and will be scary, maybe a couple of cheap little mods like others have mentioned like the flywheel weight and smaller sprocket maybe and practice practice practice, work on the throttle control listen to the engine, keep it in the meat of the powerband and use momentum, hope ya sort it out, happy smokin  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
F**K THE WHALES......................SAVE THE 2 STROKE!!!!

The hardest part about riding a 4 stroke is telling your parents your Gay!!

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Offline TotalNZ

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2012, 07:04:15 AM »
Huh thats weird... could've sworn I posted this...

It sounds to me like you are riding the 2 stroke like the 4 stroke. you gotta ride a 250f like a 125 to get the most out of it. by that i mean wide open, bouncing off the rev limiter. when i was getting used to my 250 i often exited corners a gear high so it was off the pipe and then roll the power on so it would build into the meat. i still use this sometimes if the track is slick or hard packed. after a while i got used to the hit of a 250 and now i couldn't imagine riding a 4 stroke.

i always rode 2 strokes and raced 125's for a while but then had 10 years off riding. when i came back it was on a 250 2 stroke and it did take a little while to not only get back into the swing of riding but also used to the extra power i had never used before.

as the old saying goes, sometimes you have to go slow to go fast

I'm not sure if you're directing that at me or not so I'll cover it just in case you are. My bike is very mid range and top end. By that I mean the midrange is very aggressive and the top end feels outright explosive. I ride it in the midrange to increase engine life as long as possible.

If you put in the hours, no 250F can beat a 250. Not in the same class with roughly the same skill level.

Complete bullcrap Stu. Some of you guys will not listen. ><img src=" title="Angry" class="smiley">
A race prepared 250F can run with a race prepared 250 smoker.

Wow you just don't read do you? You've made a fool of yourself in two ways here: 1.) I said atleast twice IF YOU PUT THE HOURS IN! That means in the gym and on the track. So you're fitness is at peak. and 2.) You've said a race prepped 250F can run with a race prepped 250 smoker. I also agreed with that in the above posts due to factors based on ease of riding. I actually said that the 250F couldn't BEAT it. And in identical and ideal conditions, it cant.

If a mans fitness is at peak and he rides a 250 smoker well against a guy who is also very fit and rides a 250F at roughly the same skill levels on the same track on the same day and traction is good, I'll tell you right here and now the 250F WILL LOOSE. Quit just attacking my posts and being a provocative prick. Disagree sure just do it in an orderly manner its really not a difficult concept mate
]Sorry gonna have to disagree there, I believe that if the same rider rode 5 laps of the same track on the same day on each of the race prepped bikes, the 250f is still gonna be easier to ride therefore faster. It's the nature of the power delivery that makes the 2t both fun and a challenge and there's no point trying to change it.
To touch on your point about training, lets say you hit the gym hard practiced on your own track everynight and got super fast enough to start beating 250f's then i reckon you'd be a step faster again on a 250f yopurself.
It's all good putting in that 1 or 2 scorching laps on the 2t but to win races you've gotta do it lap after lap for 20 or 30 mins, enter the 250f.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline TotalNZ

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 07:07:16 AM »
Someone earlier posted that a 250f has 45 HP?  When did this happen?  Maybe a pro circuit pro bike with an expected engine life of 5 hours.  Aren't stock 250f's more like 35 HP?

I've ridden many a 450 in the woods and I absolutely can't stand them.  I'm slower then shit on them and they turn like a friggin tank.  Ride your 250 a gear higher in the corners.  Drag your rear brake to the apex of the turn then start rolling on the throttle until you are wide open at the exit and you'll have no more problems.  Throttle control is the problem here, not the bike.
Yeah the 4strokes are pigs on the single trail, thats one area where the 2t leaves them for dead.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2012, 07:43:10 AM »
Huh thats weird... could've sworn I posted this...

It sounds to me like you are riding the 2 stroke like the 4 stroke. you gotta ride a 250f like a 125 to get the most out of it. by that i mean wide open, bouncing off the rev limiter. when i was getting used to my 250 i often exited corners a gear high so it was off the pipe and then roll the power on so it would build into the meat. i still use this sometimes if the track is slick or hard packed. after a while i got used to the hit of a 250 and now i couldn't imagine riding a 4 stroke.

i always rode 2 strokes and raced 125's for a while but then had 10 years off riding. when i came back it was on a 250 2 stroke and it did take a little while to not only get back into the swing of riding but also used to the extra power i had never used before.

as the old saying goes, sometimes you have to go slow to go fast

I'm not sure if you're directing that at me or not so I'll cover it just in case you are. My bike is very mid range and top end. By that I mean the midrange is very aggressive and the top end feels outright explosive. I ride it in the midrange to increase engine life as long as possible.
Nope i was referring to the OP, not everything is about you

Perhaps you should consider using the quote function then eh? Not everyones as psychic as you :P

I'd like to draw peoples attention to NZ's reply:
Huh thats weird... could've sworn I posted this...

It sounds to me like you are riding the 2 stroke like the 4 stroke. you gotta ride a 250f like a 125 to get the most out of it. by that i mean wide open, bouncing off the rev limiter. when i was getting used to my 250 i often exited corners a gear high so it was off the pipe and then roll the power on so it would build into the meat. i still use this sometimes if the track is slick or hard packed. after a while i got used to the hit of a 250 and now i couldn't imagine riding a 4 stroke.

i always rode 2 strokes and raced 125's for a while but then had 10 years off riding. when i came back it was on a 250 2 stroke and it did take a little while to not only get back into the swing of riding but also used to the extra power i had never used before.

as the old saying goes, sometimes you have to go slow to go fast

I'm not sure if you're directing that at me or not so I'll cover it just in case you are. My bike is very mid range and top end. By that I mean the midrange is very aggressive and the top end feels outright explosive. I ride it in the midrange to increase engine life as long as possible.

If you put in the hours, no 250F can beat a 250. Not in the same class with roughly the same skill level.

Complete bullcrap Stu. Some of you guys will not listen. ><img src=" title="Angry" class="smiley">
A race prepared 250F can run with a race prepared 250 smoker.

Wow you just don't read do you? You've made a fool of yourself in two ways here: 1.) I said atleast twice IF YOU PUT THE HOURS IN! That means in the gym and on the track. So you're fitness is at peak. and 2.) You've said a race prepped 250F can run with a race prepped 250 smoker. I also agreed with that in the above posts due to factors based on ease of riding. I actually said that the 250F couldn't BEAT it. And in identical and ideal conditions, it cant.

If a mans fitness is at peak and he rides a 250 smoker well against a guy who is also very fit and rides a 250F at roughly the same skill levels on the same track on the same day and traction is good, I'll tell you right here and now the 250F WILL LOOSE. Quit just attacking my posts and being a provocative prick. Disagree sure just do it in an orderly manner its really not a difficult concept mate
]Sorry gonna have to disagree there, I believe that if the same rider rode 5 laps of the same track on the same day on each of the race prepped bikes, the 250f is still gonna be easier to ride therefore faster. It's the nature of the power delivery that makes the 2t both fun and a challenge and there's no point trying to change it.
To touch on your point about training, lets say you hit the gym hard practiced on your own track everynight and got super fast enough to start beating 250f's then i reckon you'd be a step faster again on a 250f yopurself.
It's all good putting in that 1 or 2 scorching laps on the 2t but to win races you've gotta do it lap after lap for 20 or 30 mins, enter the 250f.


THAT is how you disagree with someone. Not through this method: Thats bullshit or the classic you dont know what you're talking about.
I'll say first up that whether or not you're faster on the 250F or the 250 depends GREATLY on your riding style. 250Fs are very gentle, smooth and have a very different cornering feel. My riding style is very loose so to speak I like to really attack the track. Its hard to explain. Anyway me point is: I'm ten fold faster on my 250 than I ever was on my fooper. No contest. The shaved off weight and where the weight is on the bike allows me to just zoom on it. Its naturally suited to me. My 250F used to go through the corners instead of around them I felt.
Thats my feel on it anyway. I get alot less tired on my two stroke simply because I'm not constantly fighting the bike.

So if anything has a big impact on whether you're faster on a 250F or 250, its riding style. Thats my experience. I'm terribly slow on the four strokes.

alright everybody, take a chill pill, stu go take a cold shower and go watch the sun go down, maybe a nice massage would help as well, i'd like everybody to stop attacking each other right now, whether or not you meant to doesn't matter, also i'd like people to not have such a short fuse, there's no reason why we can't be civil and still DISCUSS not ARGUE about things.

I'd like people to stop attacking eachother too, the problem with this plan of attack is people being idiots. Don't agree with something I read guys? Say just that: I disagree.
Saying thats complete bullcrap or something aggressive like that is going to get me fired up. Push me and I'll push back yeah? I'm perfectly happy to debate something with you, and chances are I'll walk away with a different perspective. But if you charge into the debate all guns blazing, don't expect me to take it.

Just to clarify twosmoke, whereever I used the word you, it was more directed at the person reading this message, not actually directed at you personally.

Someone earlier posted that a 250f has 45 HP?  When did this happen?  Maybe a pro circuit pro bike with an expected engine life of 5 hours.  Aren't stock 250f's more like 35 HP?

I've ridden many a 450 in the woods and I absolutely can't stand them.  I'm slower then shit on them and they turn like a friggin tank.  Ride your 250 a gear higher in the corners.  Drag your rear brake to the apex of the turn then start rolling on the throttle until you are wide open at the exit and you'll have no more problems.  Throttle control is the problem here, not the bike.

That was me and I was taking into account that it was properly race prepped. Aftermarket exhaust all that bolt on stuff. I think the KX250F made about 41 stock? Don't quote me on that though So thats what I was guessing after all the performance stuff, about 45
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline TMKIWI

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2012, 08:38:28 AM »
Get a life stu.
This site is supoosed to be civil.
And you are the only one calling people names.
Go hang out on Vital.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline Stusmoke

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2012, 08:51:50 AM »
Dude, you come in here attack my posts and expect me to take it? NO
Disagree civilly and I won't bite back. Its not difficult. If you can't interact with me in a moderately decent manner, ignore me outright. Thats the last I'm going to say on this
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline TMKIWI

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I must be a TOTAL PUSSY! Aaargh !!
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2012, 09:32:44 AM »
Well stop calling me names.
You have called me a , prick, a fool, and a bully in the last 2 days.
All I have done is correct a couple of your posts which were incorrect and you have a go at me.
Have I called you any names ?. No.
So stop annoying the shit out of myself and other people will you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough