4 $troke lovers= delusional people

[ACMX]

Some of you are giving the 4t too much credit. When looking at lap times done by 250v250 comparisons I don't believe the 250f will run faster laps '9 times out of 10'. Most riders you see will have a faster lap on a 250, although the 250 will also run the slowest lap. The 250f is more consistent, and easier to ride. Not faster.

[burn1986]

It fully amazes me that some people come on here and start praising 4-strokes (to any degree). Most of us have ridden a 4-stroke. Do you really think that you're going to convince us that 4-strokes are really that great? Sure a 450F is faster than a 250 and a 250F is faster than a 125. Don't you think we know this? Who cares if all the sudden you jumped on a 4-stroke and had your eyes opened to how much faster you were on a 4-stroke? Who are you preaching to? We know the OEM's wave of the future is high dollar, high tech 4-strokes. Do you think most of us on here don't see what's going on? Or that somehow we're off in a cave somewhere and need to be enlightened by a born again 4-stroke fanatic? Why do people like this even come on here and post?

[TotalNZ]

Some of you are giving the 4t too much credit. When looking at lap times done by 250v250 comparisons I don't believe the 250f will run faster laps '9 times out of 10'. Most riders you see will have a faster lap on a 250, although the 250 will also run the slowest lap. The 250f is more consistent, and easier to ride. Not faster.

Yes i agree, but winning races means being able to string consecutive fast laps together.
I totally agree that i could turn a couple super fast laps on my 2t but it's hard to do that for a whole race ie the challenge i spoke of earlier.
4bangers are easier to ride, so you can ride at a faster pace for longer.
like i said this is boring to me but i can't deny it's the way to win races.
Also i do have a flywheel weight on the CR, it helped my starts heaps.
What rbigair40 mentioned about rolling a track and gassing on the face of a jump is also true in my opinion, it's one of the things that makes a 4 easier to ride.
A good example is at my local track a 450 is able to launch in 3rd and pretty much stay in that gear the whole lap, boring but fast. meanwhile i'm up and down gears and on the clutch, much more fun.

[TotalNZ]

It fully amazes me that some people come on here and start praising 4-strokes (to any degree). Most of us have ridden a 4-stroke. Do you really think that you're going to convince us that 4-strokes are really that great? Sure a 450F is faster than a 250 and a 250F is faster than a 125. Don't you think we know this? Who cares if all the sudden you jumped on a 4-stroke and had your eyes opened to how much faster you were on a 4-stroke? Who are you preaching to? We know there's the OEM's wave of the future is high dollar, high tech 4-strokes. Do you think most of us on here don't see what's going on? Or that somehow we're off in a cave somewhere and need to be enlightened by a born again 4-stroke fanatic? Why do people like this even come on here and post?

I just don't like having bulls**t claims jammed down my throat whether they're pro 2 or 4.
I love my 2t and thats all i'll ever own. I just reckon some people get too caught up in the pro 2t talk without any real basis for there opinions.
I'm not saying i like or agree with any of whats happened in MX with the advent of high tech 4 stroke machines, i'm just trying to keep it real.
The technology and development of the 4's is now at such a level that they can compete on par with 2t's 250 vs 250. thats a fact, like i've said i believe most riders these days would be faster on a new 250F. now i'm not happy about that and there are a number of reasons for this and they all suck, but i think alot of people on here underestimate the new 4's and or overestimate the oldschool 2t's.
I'm also not factoring into my argument the cost or maintenance schedules of the 4's, these things all are contributing to the decline of the sport i reckon. All i'm doing is saying how it is on the track right now with the new 4's. They're fast and 250f's can definitely compete with and beat 250 2t's.

[luthier269]

Around here people are dumping 4ts because guys are winning big on 2ts. Guys that were in the points lead on a 250f switched to 250 2ts because they had been beaten  bad by 250 2ts with lesser rides on them. So I don't see a 4t being faster and the weight diffence at the end of a moto the 2ts wins again and don't fall over on the 4ts and stall you may not start it till the race is over.

[TotalNZ]

Around here people are dumping 4ts because guys are winning big on 2ts. Guys that were in the points lead on a 250f switched to 250 2ts because they had been beaten  bad by 250 2ts with lesser rides on them. So I don't see a 4t being faster and the weight diffence at the end of a moto the 2ts wins again and don't fall over on the 4ts and stall you may not start it till the race is over.

Fair enough, i agree. I'm just saying what i'm seeing here.
Over here it's 250 vs 250 across the board and the 250f's are competitive.
yes our nationals were won by a pro on a modded 2t, but he only just sneaked in and had to fight hard for it, and this is Darryl King we're talking about. There were no other 2t's in the top 10.

[citabjockey]

Given a class of 250 4T versus 250 2T, various tracks and various rider levels, neglecting the "fun" factor, which style bike do you guys think would net the riders a better trophies-per-dollar ratio?

[miedosoracing]

Around here people are dumping 4ts because guys are winning big on 2ts. Guys that were in the points lead on a 250f switched to 250 2ts because they had been beaten  bad by 250 2ts with lesser rides on them. So I don't see a 4t being faster and the weight diffence at the end of a moto the 2ts wins again and don't fall over on the 4ts and stall you may not start it till the race is over.

Fair enough, i agree. I'm just saying what i'm seeing here.
Over here it's 250 vs 250 across the board and the 250f's are competitive.
yes our nationals were won by a pro on a modded 2t, but he only just sneaked in and had to fight hard for it, and this is Darryl King we're talking about. There were no other 2t's in the top 10.

That's pretty cool. He's 42 and still won the series. Pretty awesome.  The question will be, is how many 2 strokes line up next year?  If it is anything like over here, they have started switching after getting beat by the 2 strokes in offroad.
"There is a lot of buzz about the 2012 KTM two-strokes and it's not just the sound from the exhaust. The latest news making its way to the talk boards involves Factory FMF/KTM riders Cory Buttrick and Charlie Mullins who will be making the switch to the 250 XC two-stroke motorcycles for the remaining National Enduro rounds.


Three-time National Enduro Champion, Russell Bobbitt, has been a "two-stroker" throughout his career with KTM and has won all three of his championships aboard his 250 XC race machine. After witnessing his success and trying the new 2012 models, Buttrick and Mullins have decided to give it a whirl."

[2b]

Hello all, I am knew to this site as of Today.
I recently sold my 2005 yz250f after racing it for a few years, Had a kx125 before that but hadn't ridden in 7 years when i first got my 250f. i loved it at first until i started getting faster and trying to set it up to turn and handle better..
I could never get it to handle the way i remember my old 1990kx125.  + when it came time to rebuild it i paid 1000$ for the workshop to do it and all i got was a piston/rings/camchain. no new valves or nothing actually it was $1100. so 1 year later i thought its time to rebuild again but no way im paying that again. So i sold it for $4000 and brought a 2006 yz250 for $4500. a $500 upgrade for me couldnt have been better! i am now 4 seconds a lap faster than i ever was on the 250F!! get holeshots, have fun, corner easier,  and im actually looking forward to the rebuild. i love  my "new" 6 year old bike. I have ridden 2010 250's / 450's.. What really sold me on the twostroke was riding my mates gas gas 300 and TM300, it had bottom end power my 250f could only dream of + a scary fast powerband to match. i figured i could make a yz250 have heaps of bottom like the 300, but have actually gotten used to the topend and love it, it has quite abit of bottom as well, with the PC Works pipe and Muffler i can lug it a gear high also. I will probably buy a flywheel weight to see what its like. But i know for sure i will never buy another 4stroke again! I race B blass in NZ and am seeing more and more 2stokes on the line as its equal displacement rules here and the amount of money needed to make a 250f competitive against a 6year old 250t is just unreasonable i have found and many others are quickly finding out too.

[TotalNZ]

Around here people are dumping 4ts because guys are winning big on 2ts. Guys that were in the points lead on a 250f switched to 250 2ts because they had been beaten  bad by 250 2ts with lesser rides on them. So I don't see a 4t being faster and the weight diffence at the end of a moto the 2ts wins again and don't fall over on the 4ts and stall you may not start it till the race is over.

Fair enough, i agree. I'm just saying what i'm seeing here.
Over here it's 250 vs 250 across the board and the 250f's are competitive.
yes our nationals were won by a pro on a modded 2t, but he only just sneaked in and had to fight hard for it, and this is Darryl King we're talking about. There were no other 2t's in the top 10.

That's pretty cool. He's 42 and still won the series. Pretty awesome.  The question will be, is how many 2 strokes line up next year?  If it is anything like over here, they have started switching after getting beat by the 2 strokes in offroad.
"There is a lot of buzz about the 2012 KTM two-strokes and it's not just the sound from the exhaust. The latest news making its way to the talk boards involves Factory FMF/KTM riders Cory Buttrick and Charlie Mullins who will be making the switch to the 250 XC two-stroke motorcycles for the remaining National Enduro rounds.


Three-time National Enduro Champion, Russell Bobbitt, has been a "two-stroker" throughout his career with KTM and has won all three of his championships aboard his 250 XC race machine. After witnessing his success and trying the new 2012 models, Buttrick and Mullins have decided to give it a whirl."

Yep he's a legend for sure, came out of retirement and won the series. him and his brothers are world class. I hope the riders he manages see his success on the smoker and make the change themselves. I'd love to see the top 10 filled with 2t's.
Speaking of offroad, slightly different ballgame and i'm surprised anyone tries to muscle those overheating pigs round those courses. without pressure from the factorys i doubt there would've even been such a swing to 4stroke machines.

[TotalNZ]

Hello all, I am knew to this site as of Today.
I recently sold my 2005 yz250f after racing it for a few years, Had a kx125 before that but hadn't ridden in 7 years when i first got my 250f. i loved it at first until i started getting faster and trying to set it up to turn and handle better..
I could never get it to handle the way i remember my old 1990kx125.  + when it came time to rebuild it i paid 1000$ for the workshop to do it and all i got was a piston/rings/camchain. no new valves or nothing actually it was $1100. so 1 year later i thought its time to rebuild again but no way im paying that again. So i sold it for $4000 and brought a 2006 yz250 for $4500. a $500 upgrade for me couldnt have been better! i am now 4 seconds a lap faster than i ever was on the 250F!! get holeshots, have fun, corner easier,  and im actually looking forward to the rebuild. i love  my "new" 6 year old bike. I have ridden 2010 250's / 450's.. What really sold me on the twostroke was riding my mates gas gas 300 and TM300, it had bottom end power my 250f could only dream of + a scary fast powerband to match. i figured i could make a yz250 have heaps of bottom like the 300, but have actually gotten used to the topend and love it, it has quite abit of bottom as well, with the PC Works pipe and Muffler i can lug it a gear high also. I will probably buy a flywheel weight to see what its like. But i know for sure i will never buy another 4stroke again! I race B blass in NZ and am seeing more and more 2stokes on the line as its equal displacement rules here and the amount of money needed to make a 250f competitive against a 6year old 250t is just unreasonable i have found and many others are quickly finding out too.

Thats great to hear, where abouts in NZ are you? i think it's the b graders and clubmen that will drive the change because of the costs involved in 4 stroke machines.

[2b]

I am in Whakatane what about you? one of my mates sold his 2006 crf450 and now has a 2009 ktm250sx, it runs down 450's on straights ive seen him. and the fact he can run that bike in ANY class, just seems silly trying to race a 125 against 250f and 250t all in the same class, another reason why i have the 250t , i just dont like the way the KTM handles but my mate does, i know i love my yz250 and wont be parting with it unless yamaha's 2013 model is updated.

[2b]

so the 2t is (10 times!!) cheaper for me to rebuild in NZ, if i buy a new yz250 piston from the U.S.A for 50bucks <- as they cost 250$ locally.
that works out to around 100bucks after conversion and tax for the piston.   my old bike cost 11 times that for a new piston etc and the motor still needed valves adjusting        my old yamaha 250f was reliable and did never blow up on me even after 200hours but the cost of oilchanges and rebuilds just isnt worth it, and the fact that im way faster in the 2t is a bonus. maybe i never could get comfortable on the 4t cause i grew up riding 2strokes. I thought that when i first got the yz250 i wouldnt be able to corner because of the power being to explosive and no engine braking but i can lay it way over and put it where i want and it steers with the back wheel, hardly need to slow down to turn because it actually goes where i want, im finding myself thinking about lines again instead of riding the outside 4stroke line all the time, This applies to Trails too, people on four strokes dont think about lines they just always go outside, and they cant change their mind once their in the rut like and go a smoother line like i can now 

[ktm150rippa]

just wanted to post this up for some of you. Now i know these kids aren't your everyday riders but I think some of you may be surprised at how steady the lap times were. And this is on a 125 probably the hardest bike to ride fast

http://lorettas11.tracksideresults.com/laptimes.asp?s=&c=30&e=1&rn=1&rt=M

[luthier269]

Check out the other class times and the 125's were close and some faster than 250's. As always its the rider over the bike!