4 $troke lovers= delusional people

[Suzuki TS250/185]

A 250 2 Stroke is enough to beat a factory FOOPER, if the 2 stroke has a factory pilot.

That's why they're scared to give out a few more cc's. They have an illusion to maintain, and they need all the help in the world to maintain it since it's based on a lie right from the foudation up.

Ty Newcome qualified in 40th position at High Point, and in the second moto, he ran as high as 16nth place well into the moto way after the initial stratification of the first few laps. Not bad for a guy in his first national. No one who's still struggling to sell ALL 4 of the 250SXF's they brought in for 2011 along with a whole pile of other rotting FOOPERS wants to have a Ty Newcome get up front on a garage built YZ. Fact is I'm sure they'd prefer he's not there at all. That goes for fooper dealers and fooper builders. 

FOOPER sellers have enough of a nightmare ahead of them right now trying to sell their garbage. The "4 Stokes are superior and SO fast... that laptimes are coming way down... and it's NOT because the track is 1/4 mile shorter than it was when we ran 2 stroks here...." illusion is falling to pieces on multiple fronts, and it's showing through in things like Husaberg ONLY importing their 2 strokes for 2012. Everywhere you look, there is concrete evidence of a growing interest in 2 strokes. Everwhere you look there's evidence that the industry is aware of the growing 2 stroke markets and is moving to satisfy them. There's no need for advertisment, people are actively seeking the bikes out and buying them. It's the most profitable way to do business! Why would a company spend money on expensive stage combat, (pro racing) to sell products that sell themselves so well???

They would not...and don't. At least not in the MX/SX arena.

There is only 1 reason why you're not going to see any 2 strokes out front at the pro MX/SX races. The reason is that pro racing is an expensive tv commercial. The actors are very expensive to buy, and they have to be paid for and reared practically from the time they're just 50cc hatchlings.

The reason for buttering all that baby food is so that the impressionable part of the bike buying market will have a built in tendency to walk into a showroom and buy what they saw blow up and roll off the track with steam rising out of it on TV. 

 

[ktm150rippa]

sometime's it really is hard to continue participating in a sport that has almost no integrity or class. Over at vital this guy was asking DC about the 250 vs 250 rule and of course the man was gutted by the fooper lovers but DC continued on his It's not up to me it's the oem's I have no power in the matter blah blah blah. So the man asking about the rule proceeds to ask DC who he needs to contact to ask questions and an explanation on why they feel the two strokes who are supposedly "antique" and "out dated" are an unfair advantage. Anyways The owner/whatever he is of the site says he's most likely delete the thread then goes on about the whole speak with your wallet bullshit. I said in a somewhat smart ass way, why not make a suffering sport cheaper, then this guyb pulls the whole "your not a racer card" I dont recall hearing about guyb racing. His site actually reminds me of the ama/oem's treat the ppl who make your job possible like shit. Great business plan there buddy anyways here's the discusion.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/DC-you-emailed-me-a-while-back,1222023?page=7


Luckily there was a video posted on there of MC riding a two stroke to help remind me of why I love to ride, as it's getting harder to support a sport ran by freakin kiss asses

[miedosoracing]

Chill out miedosoracing. You seem to like argueing with people. ( I visit Vital now and then )

What snook said and was repeated by Vintage. : UNDER THE CURRANT RULES A 4 STROKE IS BETTER. Under the Pro rules.

I dont think that is a inflammatory statement, Just a sad truth.

Every time this sort of discussion comes up people missunderstand which set of rules are being talked about.

Now hugs & kisses everyone.

yeah, I love to argue on the forums.    But hey, i only do it, because people keep saying the same thing, and that ticks me off. They continuely say how good the 4 strokes are. I don't get it.  They are not better in any way shape form or fashion.  They are not "that good."  They are just given a handicap. Plain and simple.  Give me a double stroke handicap and I'll kick Tigers ass.  Does that make me better at golf than Tiger?  Just because the rules give me that handicap? So there 

[TMKIWI]

I agree with you meidos on the fact that 4 strokes are not a better bike. cc' for cc'
But I do believe under your currant PRO rules they are the better CHOICE.
Is it fair. NO , But that is what you have at the moment.

Change it back to 250=250 , Open=Open.
You would be suprised at how close a 250 2 stroke and a 250F is in lap times with a Pro onboard.
Both bikes have their + & - at different tracks.
The big difference is you dont have to spend 20K with Pro-Circuit to make your smoker quicker.
Or another 5K on Titanium bolts.
For the "Average racer" who is not getting paid $1M a year ( which is most racers ) the 2 stroke is by far the better option.

PS. We have FAIR racing down in this part of the world.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

Change it back to 250=250 , Open=Open.
You would be suprised at how close a 250 2 stroke and a 250F is in lap times with a Pro onboard.
Both bikes have their + & - at different tracks.

As usual, I am here to agree with you. I have been looking at lap times for a few years now for unrelated reasons (I promote my own series and it helps me in designing safe tracks) and you are right; "A Pro rider will turn very similar lap times regardless of the bike (correctly set up)." Now I can't say he can do that for 45+2 (or even today's 30+2) but for most of the moto, he will turn the same lap times. It is one of the reasons I prefer "Open" classes ('run what you brung').

In the 90's I moved off the open class bikes and into the 125 class because over the course of the race, I was faster on the 125 (fitness played a big part in it!). Holding onto a 500cc monster for 3+ hours was getting to me and the 125 made racing fun again. I was still whipped at the end but I was still pushing rather than wheezing.

The thing is, I'd bet Mitch (et al) could make a 250 2T make equal HP to the 450 4$ but would it be ridable? And if you did, would it not be a hand grenade just link the 4$? And would it not be just as expensive or filled with unobtanium preventing the privateer from competing anyway? And is that the direction the AMA and FIM want to take the sport?

The problem as I see it is that what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. Of course the average rider, the 80% of all bikes sold, is not a professional racer and would be better off on a KDX200, but the buying public wants what Ricky/Bubba/Chad/and Ryan have. They spend millions on Rockstar/RedBull/Makita sticker kits to make their bikes look just like the pros. They buy exact replica riding gear. Count the number of Monster helmets you see at the next local MX. I am willing to be they are not getting one dime in return from Monster!  And since Jeff Fredette isn't kicking everyone's ass on the KDX, those are not selling like hot cakes. The manufacturers traded off having THEIR bikes costing $40k and selling to the public cheap knockoffs for $2500 to having EVERYONE pay $10k. Yet to be competitive, you still have to invest another $30k+.

At least with the works bikes, the rest of us could afford to have a good time.

[rbigair40]

I love 2 strokes at LL I was behind the womens class and there was a girl from cali #22 on a yz 125 that was the baddest sounding thing ther!! i think her sister won the class ? (same last name) buttt last year i tried on a ktm 360 that was fresh and a real nice bike !!!!!! fast handled good, it just was not good enough to do the job i invested a lot of money in that experiment and it didnt work out the way i hoped (dnq for LL ) this yr i borrowed a kawajunki 450 which i am not a fan of and made it to LL only rode 4 time befor that !! so if you remember stewart saying wait till i get my 450 he would beat RC and windham on the crf making ricky earn it!!! all yr long when RC rode a RM,i think that would be proof enough 

[snook620]

Check out bigair40 last week (45) up there on the start with Kieth Johnson, Clark Stiles, Scott Sheak in +35....not bad for an old man who rode 5 times this year 

[Suzuki TS250/185]

I love 2 strokes at LL I was behind the womens class and there was a girl from cali #22 on a yz 125 that was the baddest sounding thing ther!! i think her sister won the class ? (same last name) buttt last year i tried on a ktm 360 that was fresh and a real nice bike !!!!!! fast handled good, it just was not good enough to do the job i invested a lot of money in that experiment and it didnt work out the way i hoped (dnq for LL ) this yr i borrowed a kawajunki 450 which i am not a fan of and made it to LL only rode 4 time befor that !! so if you remember stewart saying wait till i get my 450 he would beat RC and windham on the crf making ricky earn it!!! all yr long when RC rode a RM,i think that would be proof enough 

I luv4strowkes. Wow.... "Bummer Dude" about riding that 2 stroke and then having it be so slow... Also, there's gears on them bikes too that you can click'em up a notch t'go faster, I bet the other guys in your race were shiftin gears and everything!

Maybe an 11/68 final drive ratio wasn't the right way to go on that bike...

I know a guy who wanted to ride up his driveway recently so he tried it on a fully customated KX620SR... fresh handled good, but not good enough to do the job.

He borrowed a message board poser's XR200, which he's not a fan of, and Wow!... Now they might as well just call'em Stiffy C. Creamyjeans!     

[miedosoracing]

I love 2 strokes at LL I was behind the womens class and there was a girl from cali #22 on a yz 125 that was the baddest sounding thing ther!! i think her sister won the class ? (same last name) buttt last year i tried on a ktm 360 that was fresh and a real nice bike !!!!!! fast handled good, it just was not good enough to do the job i invested a lot of money in that experiment and it didnt work out the way i hoped (dnq for LL ) this yr i borrowed a kawajunki 450 which i am not a fan of and made it to LL only rode 4 time befor that !! so if you remember stewart saying wait till i get my 450 he would beat RC and windham on the crf making ricky earn it!!! all yr long when RC rode a RM,i think that would be proof enough 

Riding a 1990's 360 that was less than praised as a good bike to a pack of new bikes is kinda a bad example, no matter how good it handled etc. As I've stated, the new bikes are better by far, both 2 and 4 strokes. JMHO.  I'd like to see how a 2012 KTM 300XC would have done for you.  Anyways, what do you mean you qualified by only riding a KX450F 4 times?  I'm not getting that. So you never practiced on the KX and you just rode the qualifiers? Or did you qualify on another bike and then raced the KX450F?

[miedosoracing]

By the way, when stewart got on his 450F, what happened?  Still got his azz handed to him by Ricky.  The 450F didn't make a bit of difference, stewart was still running second.  There are some serious shills here. The key way to always know, is the first part always says, "I love 2 strokes." Just sayin. Change the MO.

[snook620]

I luv4strowkes. Wow.... "Bummer Dude" about riding that 2 stroke and then having it be so slow... Also, there's gears on them bikes too that you can click'em up a notch t'go faster, I bet the other guys in your race were shiftin gears and everything!

Maybe an 11/68 final drive ratio wasn't the right way to go on that bike...

I know a guy who wanted to ride up his driveway recently so he tried it on a fully customated KX620SR... fresh handled good, but not good enough to do the job.

He borrowed a message board poser's XR200, which he's not a fan of, and Wow!... Now they might as well just call'em Stiffy C. Creamyjeans!     

Another very good post from TS250. How many times have you made it to Loretta's again?

[snook620]

Anyways, what do you mean you qualified by only riding a KX450F 4 times?  I'm not getting that. So you never practiced on the KX and you just rode the qualifiers? Or did you qualify on another bike and then raced the KX450F?

It means he qualified from his regional on a piece o crap kx450 he had rode 4 times. He bought it blown up off craigslist a couple weeks before

There are some serious shills here. The key way to always know, is the first part always says, "I love 2 strokes." Just sayin. Change the MO.

I dont understand what your saying here?

[Suzuki TS250/185]

WOW!

...If you're going to use your 2 screen names to make up a story to try to make it sound like you couldn't qualify on a 2 stroke, then you "Made it in" on a Kawasucksy that you "Borrowed", you have to get your 2 screen names to work out their story before hand and stick to it.

I know 4 stroke guys can be a little dense, but your first screen name stated that he "Borrowed" a 450 that "He's not a fan of", then your main screen name stepped in to back up your second one with a photo and also stated that the Fart50 was "Bought off craigslist blown up" even though he was bitching about the money he had spent on his other bike. Most people who bitch about money and bikes in the same sentence won't be having anything to do with a used fartbike... Why not just buy a used wooden boat!!!

That's just stupid...

[snook620]

WOW!

...If you're going to use your 2 screen names to make up a story to try to make it sound like you couldn't qualify on a 2 stroke, then you "Made it in" on a Kawasucksy that you "Borrowed", you have to get your 2 screen names to work out their story before hand and stick to it.

I know 4 stroke guys can be a little dense, but your first screen name stated that he "Borrowed" a 450 that "He's not a fan of", then your main screen name stepped in to back up your second one with a photo and also stated that the Fart50 was "Bought off craigslist blown up" even though he was bitching about the money he had spent on his other bike. Most people who bitch about money and bikes in the same sentence won't be having anything to do with a used fartbike... Why not just buy a used wooden boat!!!

That's just stupid...

2 screen names? Are you serious? LMFAO... NO TS250 IM NOT YOU!!! Your the only immature member on here to take it to that level. Congrats.

Bigair is a close friend of mine. Would you like some proof?

[snook620]

Actually now that I think about it, I think he did borrow someones kx450 that year. It may have not been the one he fixed off CL. Its been 2 years hell I cant remember.

He works on motorcycle's and 4 wheelers at home so buying a blown up 4 stroke on a good deal isnt a bad investment. I DO know the motor was later sold and the chassis now has a kx500 motor on it....which keeps breaking (the frame).