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Offline JETZcorp

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Safety Gear Thread...
« on: July 21, 2010, 04:32:10 PM »
Well shit, unless he plans on slamming into trees, riding directly behind someone who's spraying rocks from the back tire, or using his feet as brakes, I don't see where a KX60 would generate a need for boots.  I've done 70 mile rides on a 250 in Nikes and only found one problem (my feet got cold.)  Of course, boots are better, and it's worth the effort to go find some, but don't let that cancel or delay any riding!

Edit: I just edited the title and not the post. This is split off from the KX60 rebuild thread. I thought this was a good forum since many vintage fans I know enjoy riding with minimal gear.

-Coop (Mike)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 10:14:00 AM by Coop »


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 05:00:32 PM »
Your wrong there jetz.
No one wants a broken foot just because they were to eger to ride.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 05:29:11 PM »
Precisely how in the hell do you break your foot on a KX60?  What's he going to do, jump it off the damn Chrysler building?  Encase his foot in a concrete block, bury that under 12ft of clay, then dump the clutch?  Even that probably wouldn't do the job on a bike like that.  I've seen people ride in slippers at fifty miles per hour and everything was okay.  The biggest danger he was in was the potential for a rattlesnake to come out of some bushes and maybe get through the material.  Other than that, a little extra caution for limbs (which boots won't really help you against anyway, unless you wear a full-body cast) and it's good to go.

But hey, I don't know what kind of riding the kid is into.  If he wants to try and jump a school bus or do some "mad whips" with a piston the size of a quarter, I do think some boots would be in order before going out to ride.  But for almost anything else one might do on a KX60, I'd give a lot more attention to injuries that are actually going to happen, namely the scraped elbow and sprained pinky finger.  I mean, Jesus Christ, I hit a god damn tree on a 43-year-old bike and the worst complaint I have is the way my fingernail turned purple for six hours.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline Coop

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 05:45:36 PM »
Precisely how in the hell do you break your foot on a KX60?  ...with a piston the size of a quarter

No offense JETZ, but you are basing all your opinions on your vintage bikes (I LOVE old bikes). Coming up the driveway on this 60, I got on it in first and then grabbed second and it hit so hard the front end came up so fast I almost looped. I am 200lbs! Nick weighs 100, trust me he will get into trouble quick and I want him properly geared up.

Riding his PW50 a couple years ago he jumped off a rock, got crossed up and ended up with his ankle jammed between a tree and the bike. Since he had proper boots on he was fine, just shook up.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 05:50:32 PM by Coop »
- Mike - Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive.

Offline JohnN

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 05:53:03 PM »
JETZ - while I appreciate you candor and your enthusiasm about motocross machines... I would not consider you the poster boy for anything safety related.

Coop is correct, the new modern bikes especially the small bores are much faster than you would imagine. In fact in a drag race the small bike would most likely beat your 390 up to about 45 to 50 mph... I know it's hard to believe, but they are FAST.

I say that you should use every bit of safety gear that you feel safe using. Boots and helmets are ESSENTIAL!!

Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 05:53:46 PM »
Thanks Coop  :D.

And congratulations on getting that bike back going in such good order.
He is 1 lucky young fella.
I hope he realises what you have done for him.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 06:14:27 PM »
Well, the 120 has pulled surprise wheelies and nearly thrown me into the woods before, so I'm familiar with small bikes doing weird things.

But I have to wonder, why was he jumping off a rock in the first place?  That sounds like the kind of thing that would shout "Danger, don't do this your the bike might get crossed up and it'll hurt!  And if it doesn't, it'll at least be scary as hell!" to me.  Maybe it's fashionable to substitute good safety equipment over common sense and judgement now?  Call me old fashioned, but I still think that 95% of motorcycle safety comes down to "Don't hit shit."  And quite honestly, if a kid grows up learning to ride with a suit of armor that would make medieval knights look half-naked, it's going to lead to a lot more hitting of shit that ought not to be hit, which is going to have magnified consequences when he gets up to a dirt bike with enough power to accelerate like a Hemi Charger.  So I think protection should be added gradually so that there is a more concerted effort to be a safe and conscientious rider in the beginning, which will establish a habit of riding safely in the future.  Then, when there's a bike that can hurt you even if you don't ride like an idiot, you can have the safety gear and the good habits on your side.  The fact that you think he will "get into trouble quick" is a very bad omen indeed.

I know that's going a little far for this discussion.  And I should point out that I do think boots are a good thing to have at any stage of riding!  But, I don't think a lack of boots should be a total show-stopper to keep the ride from happening, especially if you think to add a safety briefing beforehand to emphasize the small level of risk that has just been added.

By the way, I'll bet you anything that if you were to look at yourself riding a bike that small, you'd notice that 70% of your weight is above the rear sprocket because of the adult-sized arms and legs hooked up to a child-sized wheelbase.  Your 200lbs wasn't doing anything to keep the front end down, and was actually working to bring it up.  That's why the 120 can pop the front wheel into the air better than my 250, even though the latter has 4x the horsepower and a much more explosive powerband.  When I was riding the 120 as a kid, I would try to get the front end up and it wouldn't do it.

By the way, that 390 has made an embarrassment out of a YZ426F in the past.  You'd be right about a 250 keeping up with it up to 50 (on perfectly flat ground), but I doubt anything smaller is going to.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline eprovenzano

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 06:40:53 PM »
JETZcorp no offense, but until you've ridden one of these little rockets, its had to believe just how quick they are.  They look so tiny, and are so cool, until you let her rip...  I've seen more than one seasoned rider get hurt, "warming" up the little bike for their son / daughter. 
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 07:16:58 PM »
That's because their entire weight is hanging over the back of the bike!  I don't doubt the bike is quick, I suspect it's about as fast as the 120 in terms of acceleration, with perhaps a bit more top-end.  But the fact remains, I would hammer the throttle, pop the clutch, even pull back on the bars, and I couldn't get the front end up more than four inches when I was 12.  BUT, now that I'm 195lbs and over six feet tall, the bike is a wheelie-throwing fool, even though it's got a very linear power spread.  The simple physics of the matter is that a tall person on a small bike is far more likely to get the front end up than someone who's only 100lbs and 4'6".  I was much more afraid for my life on the 120 through trails than I was on the 390, because I knew which one was more likely to point the front end straight for Jupiter, and it wasn't the 390.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline Coop

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 07:48:05 PM »
But I have to wonder, why was he jumping off a rock in the first place?  That sounds like the kind of thing that would shout "Danger, don't do this your the bike might get crossed up and it'll hurt!  

Because there is more to dirt riding than cruising around in fields or on fire roads... ;D
- Mike - Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive.

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 08:00:06 PM »
But jumping off a rock?  If you're going to jump off something, jump off something that's consistent.  If there's ONE thing I've learned about rocks after ten years of riding and listening to 45 years worth of stories, it's that you can never trust a rock.  Every time you see a rock and think, "Oh, I can hit that and it'll be okay," that's when the front wheel kicks sideways by some unknown force of nature, the bike crosses up, high-sides, and splatters your head against the ground.  It's always a rock.  When my dad ripped out his shoulder a month ago, it was because of one damned rock that threw the front wheel and then the back wheel a good foot and a half to one side.  I understand the appeal of messing around and jumping things, but a new rider needs above all else to recognize when there's potential for something to go wrong.

And you know, you can probably mess around with them all you want for half a decade and come out of it okay, but eventually there's going to be one that's got some funky shape, and things happen.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, the fact that the bike crossed up and pinned his foot to a tree should be enough of a clue to make him think twice about what he jumps around on.  Wanting something beyond cruising roads is fine, but I honestly believe that constructing a ramp out of a bunch of 2x4s and sailing over a big crate of Pit Vipers, Evel Knievel style, would be more safe than bouncing off some boulder to get into the air.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline TMKIWI

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 08:39:36 PM »
Coop :
You better make sure your nephew only rides on a perfectly flat soft surface from now on. No pebbles bigger then 1/2 inch and watch out for those evil rocks that jump out in front of the bike.  :P ;)
 
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 10:46:44 PM »
I don't mean that.  You'll notice from my videos I go over rocks all the time.  But the emphasis is that if you're seeking them out so that you can hit them and go flying, then that's a recipe for disaster.  When you jump off something, you want it to be a somewhat regular surface, but when you hit a rock (which by the sounds of it was more like a boulder), you can never tell really what shape it is, and exactly how it's going to affect the bike.  Worse still, because it's irregular, there's a good chance that unless you it it in just such a way, the front and back wheels are going to hit slightly different parts of said boulder, and react in slightly different ways.  And as well all know, when the front and back of a motorcycle act on slightly different agendas, the result to the rider can be massive.

Now of course, I don't know how big this "rock" was, or what shape it was, or anything other than that it was a mineral deposit located somewhere roughly close to the Earth's crust.  For all I know, the damn thing had been worked over by archaeologists with their little toothbrushes until it was an FMX ramp.  I don't know.  But as a general rule, jumping irregularly-shaped things equals bad, and the kind of boulders that one might use to jump often tend to be irregularly-shaped.

1/2 inch is fine, and actually I'd say any sort of gravel that's smaller than bowling balls is probably okay unless you hit it at eighty.  However, I should remind everyone of the story of a rider we knew who had all his riding gear on, hit a section of five-inch-minus "gravel" (which can be seen at 4:45 in my "Cruising in Stereo" video, though this was shot a decade after the incident I'm talking about, so it's improved somewhat) and crashed his CR500 so hard it put him in the hospital.  I don't remember what injuries he had, but after riding for 30 years, it was this section of rocks that made him hang it up for good.  He knew he had a modern, stable bike with monoshock so of course it wouldn't hop sideways!  It did.  The front went one way, the back went another, and regardless of all the armor he was wearing, he didn't have a chance of picking it back up.  Meanwhile, I'd gone over that same section twice on that very day, with a T-shirt, shorts, and 3" of suspension and didn't even come close to losing it.  I recognized the danger, adjusted my riding accordingly, and was thus able to keep going and enjoy the thrills of riding for years to come.

Protective gear is nice, and as I've said before, I'd like to have more for the time when some other armadillo-looking goofball plows into my bike, but you absolutely cannot use that or anything else as a substitute for smart riding habits.  Not even a little bit.  When you're riding, no matter how much crap you're wearing, you gotta pretend you're on that bike ass naked with a full-body sunburn.  That way, when you do inevitably crash, you will do everything humanly possible to make it better for yourself, and that, more than anything else you can possibly do (except for the all-important helmet) will save your life.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline JohnN

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2010, 07:37:54 AM »


You may be missing the point somehow.... it's not just about rocks. Even though they can be dangerous.

Yes you are correct that you need to use smart riding techniques and ride within your capabilities especially when starting out.

But think back a bit to when you were a little young dude... for some reason you thought (maybe still do..) that you are invincible. That no matter what you did you would not only survive, but that the most you'd get was a small scratch.

The older, wiser of us on here are just attempting to temper you lack of enthusiasm for safety gear or silencers with a more modest approach.

Which includes but is not limited to;

Protecting our children from injury to the best of our ability. Using every piece of safety gear available to do so. And ourselves practicing intelligent use of gear that will allow us to ride another day.

Sure we could swap stories about folks surviving with nothing but bubble gum and a tooth pick and others with virtual suits of armor dieing... but I personally know of more than a couple who have died without using safety equipment.

Motorcycles can be dangerous.. protect yourself for a fall, not the ride!

With this subject I'm sticking to my guns...

As for the silencer thing, while you may not know of anyone that hates you for riding without one, does not mean that there isn't some mountain man living off the grid that hates every second you blast your bike up and down the fire road in front of his hut!!

In 99% of the world it is sane and reasonable to keep your bike as quiet as possible to help ensure that others get a chance to enjoy the freedoms that you currently enjoy.

Using your logic, since you are so far away from people (as you claim) it must be alright to break other laws as well?? Where do you draw the line? Murder?

What's next encouraging people to take their un-silenced mx bikes to the streets of a big city?? It's just belligerent thinking in my opinion.

Having a bike that is quiet is the right thing to do, no matter what you might think otherwise.

I don't mean to come down on you, but you very well may be a role model for someone... and we don't need any more people to make our lives more difficult.
Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!

Offline Coop

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Re: 1994 KX60 rebuild/refurbish
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2010, 09:23:48 AM »
...but when you hit a rock (which by the sounds of it was more like a boulder)

I don't know why I am responding, because in my short time here I've learned you think you are always right and refuse to see anyone else's side. But I just can't help myself, LOL.

We were talking about a 7 year old on a PW50. Ever see one of those? A rock the size of a phone book would be big to one of those. I never said he sought it out or even jumped on purpose. You assume too much. We were riding, he couldn't avoid it, he jumped, lost control and hit a tree. Again I never said he did it on purpose. But accidents happen and gear helps in those situations. As his guardian when we are riding I like to make sure he is properly protected to ride with me another day. I take great joy in riding with my nephews.

Like I said before, I have seen your videos, and not everyone likes to ride like you guys do. I don't mean to sound like an arrogant jerk. There is nothing wrong with how you guys ride, I would never criticize you like you do seem to do to everyone else. Riding off-road is great because it allows us all to ride and enjoy riding at our own pace. But to say hitting a rock is poor decision making is nonsense. You are showing your ignorance and lack of experience. We do not all live where you do. I could show you some trails here where in an hour you would be praying to hit a patch of dirt longer than a couple feet LOL. A local riding area has a trail called the "Rock Garden" and it's just that. Rocks and mud are very common conditions here in SW PA. Here are some pics of what many of the trails here look like.

Beginning of the Rock Garden, it gets worse:

My friend Justin on his KDX200:

My friend Pat on his KTM250:



- Mike - Don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive.