Maico-the final answer

[Rota Ash]

haha this thread is gold, lol RM 250 FTW!!! it is actually funny on this site is see alot of ppl that alot of the talking up of bikes is 1 maico 2 ktm 3 tm 4 yamaha 5 suzuki and i am sure there are a few others but kawasaki lol i have not heard one person say they where a good bike, idon't like the feel of every one i have rode but there not that bad are they??? surely better then some old POS 83 maico???

[admiral]

The clutch is hard to pull in... but... why the hell are you using the clutch on a Maico?  Nobody uses the clutch on a Maico, it's a waste of time.  The bike shifts very well without using it, and there's enough torque (simply because it is 485cc) that once you get moving, you don't need to bother with it.  Even if it was a perfect clutch with zero force required to pull it in, you'd be able to shift faster and actually smoother without it.  And when it was new, they said you could park the bike in a cold garage for months, then put it in first with the engine off, pull in the clutch, and roll the bike with no resistance.  I don't know if a modern clutch will do that (maybe they do) but I'll tell you for damn sure my Husky won't do that.

Jetz, if you are ever in the midwest maybe you can meet up with me and give me some pointers on how to ride open bikes and MX.

[SachsGS]

I once owned a motorsports shop and repaired and serviced a 30 year span of Kawasaki products . I found Kawasaki to be a very perplexing company - the big street bikes are very well made and some of the ATVs not very good at all. During the 90s many of my freinds raced KXs and did very well, but to a bike all their mounts were worn out "rattletraps" half way through the season, sagging footpegs and other quality issues plagued them. Most telling was that there was no brand loyalty, most of my freinds moving on to CRFs or (surprisingly) Gassers.

[Turquine]

Somebody asked about Kawasakis. I too love the older Maicos, 490s anyhow, but the KX 500 was a great machine. The most powerful of all the Japanese 500s when stock, and in a correct state of tune. The Honda CR 500 could probably be hopped up further than the big green machine, but stock, the KX could take it or any other Japanese machine. They owned the Baja for as long as Kawasaki cared to compete in the event. With the Service Honda AF frame, it can be made into an excellent motocrosser and already has far more power than any of the modern thumpers. It was a fast, powerful, solid machine from all I've ever heard or read. Not all Kawasakis were junk, the KX 500 was a great machine and currently holds the world's top speed record for dirtbikes, beating out the 1981 KTM 495 which previously held that honor. From the tests I've read over the years, the only machine I've ever read about that could pull it through the gears was the mid '90s KTM 550 2stroke.

Were I still able to ride, I'd buy one of these if I could find one in good condition. The new Maicos, 500 and up, probably are more powerful and no doubt far superior in suspension and handling, but there isn't much info on them yet, and I'd be leery of buying one until I knew more. Sure, I know many CR owners out there will have a story as to how their CR 500 blew away a KX 500 here or there, but the magazines all pretty much found the KX out accelerating it in the tests. Say what you will though, the KX 500 was a great Kawasaki and is still pretty much the one to beat. I will admit though, that the CR was a better motocrosser, but not as good of an all-around off-road machine.  Just thought I'd get in a plug for Kawasaki here, or at least, that particular model. Any KX500 from 1990-2004 was a great bike that could hold its own against nearly anything, and to my knowledge, that hasn't changed. Their KDX 200s and 220s were also rock-solid and reliable machines although not particularly high performance bikes.

[ford832]

Thanks for the invite guys.I'd absolutely love to make a trip down.The wife wants to go south on vacation.Maybe I can convince her Mass is south enough and Southwick sand is as good a place as any to throw your towel.I'll work on her.The opposite applies as well of course-anyone wanting to make a trip to N.S.,let me know.
As TMKIWI said,suspension is absolutely everything.Whenever I get a new bike it takes me the best part of a season to get the suspension to where I like it,all the while bitching that it kicks a little here,packs a little there and so on-then I ride one of my friends older bikes and think to myself-even at the worst,I've got no right to complain-but do anyway,and continue to frig.
Kawasakis in the 90's were a bit rough for sure but I think,with a few exceptions,most are similar now.I had a couple friends that had 125's and 250's both.The 125's had about a 400rpm brap from upper mid and the 250's,while having decent power,vibrated like paint shakers.Quality on both was grim for sure.As for the 500's,the KX had the CR but it was also a PV motor as well.
I remember one of the mags tests on the 500 way back when.Apparently,they pulled the motor for something and a bunch of hand made shims fell out-an effort to quell vibration and tighten tolerances it would seem.
My vote for Kawi of all time would go to the KDX-either 200 or 220.While some of the parts are chintzy,and it's excessively choked up such that it feels like a rag in the airbox when stock,it can be made to rip very cheaply and easily and is a fine woods bike.
As for GasGas,a fine bike.I'd buy one with no hesitation whatsoever.As a matter of fact,as long as the old YZ continues to treat me well,and I'm sure it will,my next new bike will be a gasgas trials-2t of course and a TM144.Anyone got any extra $$$?

[ford832]

And when it was new, they said you could park the bike in a cold garage for months, then put it in first with the engine off, pull in the clutch, and roll the bike with no resistance.  I don't know if a modern clutch will do that (maybe they do) but I'll tell you for damn sure my Husky won't do that.

A clutch that sticks like that when cold is caused by the cohesion of the trans oil to the friction and metal plates.A well designed,precision machined clutch system will always do that-if it doesn't,you've likely got troubles.
As for shifting,I always use the clutch.I'm hardly RC so the split second loss doesn't matter and besides,it's easier on the gear.Oddly enough,that's why the manufacturers put them on there.

[TMKIWI]

I did a flat track meeting a couple of seasons back on my RM.
Trying to hang with some 450's i decided to not use the clutch.
Result !
1 broken gearbox.
D'oh.

I use my clutch now.

[JohnN]

Thanks for the invite guys.I'd absolutely love to make a trip down.The wife wants to go south on vacation.Maybe I can convince her Mass is south enough and Southwick sand is as good a place as any to throw your towel.I'll work on her.The opposite applies as well of course-anyone wanting to make a trip to N.S.,let me know.

Don't you get some kind of Canadian Nation up N.S. way? We were going to attempt to race a few this season, but may not be able to do so... but it would be cool knowing someone if we did go!

As for the wife, you may want to make Southwick a stop on the way home from a place with a proper beach, ocean, waves, seagulls and Piña coladas.... believe me that will work best for your marriage... plus she'll be happy to stop at an MX track on the way home after a lovely holiday! 

[JETZcorp]

Hey Rota, I don't know if you've caught any of my ravings on my '67 Kawasaki, but it's the most entertaining bike I've ever ridden.  If ever there comes a point in my life where I'm homeless and have to live under a bridge, I'll sleep under a newspaper with the Kawi chained to my leg.  I will never get rid of that bike.  Then of course there were the Green Streaks, which started Kawasaki's trend with green (long before the other Japanese companies adopted their current colors) and were legendary for being insanely powerful (and ridiculously heavy, except the 100.)

As for gearbox reliability, I've seen plenty of 30-year-old Maico gearboxes used by a rider who never uses the clutch on up-shifts.  Just remember to let off the throttle when you're shifting.  The two speed-shifting methods I've come across are my dad's method, which is to ignore the clutch and shift with the gas off, and my uncle's method, which is to hold the gas on and slip the clutch.  They're about equally fast, but the latter method doesn't feels as natural for the bike, to me.

[maicoman009]

Hey Turquine your post about the Kawasaki KX-500 holding the fastest speed record for a dirtbike is correct & you also stated that it even beat the current record held by a 1981 KTM-495 but the one thing that you failed to mention is technically the 81 KTM-495 still holds the record for being the fastest PRODUCTION bike whereas the KX-500 that ran a bit faster than the KTM-495 was NOT an all stock production bike like the KTM!Yes the MODIFIED KX-500 went faster than the all stock KTM but if the KX-500 was completely stock I don't believe it would have went as fast as the Katoom!

[ford832]

John,there used to be a national in Nova Scotia but it is now held the next province over in New Brunswick.Regardless,it's only about 4 hrs away from me and I hit it every couple years.I'd love to see you guys put in an appearance.I could even help out-I'm pretty good at eating steaks and drinking beer
I'll work on the wife but I don't hold out much hope.In truth,I don't want to go south anyway but the two girls out vote me.Maybe when I figure I'm somewhere in the right area I'll fake a heart attack or something to get the plane to land
I almost forgot,for stock dirt bike speed records I assume you guys are talking two strokes only-if not,it belongs to the 650 Husaberg.My 550 was good for just a tick under 100mph.

[admiral]

I once owned a motorsports shop and repaired and serviced a 30 year span of Kawasaki products . I found Kawasaki to be a very perplexing company - the big street bikes are very well made and some of the ATVs not very good at all. During the 90s many of my freinds raced KXs and did very well, but to a bike all their mounts were worn out "rattletraps" half way through the season, sagging footpegs and other quality issues plagued them. Most telling was that there was no brand loyalty, most of my freinds moving on to CRFs or (surprisingly) Gassers.

you got it right with your description of Kawasaki KX's. the worst steel frames ever. i welded more KX frames than all other brands put together. footpeg mounts wallowed out in six months, frames stretched, Elektro-fusion cylinder plating peeled, engine cases leaked, lots of 3rd gear problems on the 250's and 500's. their street bikes always seemed rugged as hell and make big power. Kaw has made some strides in the durability of their offroad machines in the last 6 years though.

[Turquine]

http://www.wolbrinkrace.blogspot.com/http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/06/worlds-fastest-mx-bike-kawasaki-kx500/
They also had a modified KX 500 in a street type frame that did 130.418 mph, which you can find right here -->
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2008/12/worlds-fastest-dirt-bike/http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/Reviews+Dirtbikes:+KTM/Vintage-The-Fastest-Stock-Dirtbike-Ever-Built/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/523565?contextCategoryId=46618

[JETZcorp]

Now that was a comprehensive post.  Every question I had whilst reading it was soon answered.  Guess I don't have much else to contribute to this discussion at the moment, but there you go.

[Turquine]

Thanks. JETZ. I really wanted to add some other links but couldn't find them. Had them bookmarked on my main PC but it crashed and is in the shop. To Ford, I wasn't referring to fast meaning stock gearing. The KX500 only did about 86 mph with stock gearing, and of course, a lot of dirtbikes came stock geared to go considerably faster than that. The Husky 500 2strokes from '83 to '85 had six gears and were considerably faster top speed.

What we're talking about here is basically how fast "can" the bike go when you raise the gearing as high as possible. Which bikes have enough power to pull such high gearing to speeds over 120 mph. One of the tests I tried to find but couldn't, had Dirtbike mag (I think it was them anyhow) just a few years ago testing several contenders here trying for just that, including the Husaberg, and it didn't fare that well. They also tested the KX500, but only got around 115 or 117 mph out of the KX there, because the local dealer didn't have any larger sprockets on hand. The Honda XR650 won this test getting to either 120 or 121, but they really stripped it down to get an extra 2 mph or so out of it. I felt robbed, at the time because I just knew the KX could beat that, since it had considerably more power, if they'd only had the sprockets. Fortunately this wonderful site here had the link vindicating my belief on that. Thanks a million, by the way for that, John. I LOVE this website!

It would be interesting to test an old Husky '85 CR or XC500 like this with its six-speed tranny. It didn't have quite the power of the KX500 or '81 KTM495, but that extra gear would help a lot. If the KX 500 had been given a 6 speed tranny to start with, I've little doubt that it would have topped 130 in its stock frame. Were I building them, all 500s would have a 7 speed tranny. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, lol. Hear that, Maico, how about building your 620 and 700 models with a 7 speed transmission stock? That would bury any competition and put an end to all arguments instantly, lol. Nobody would be able to beat that! Husky had an 8 speed desert racer in the late 60s so don't tell me it can't be done. Not only that, but it might bring the topics here back from the longing and nostalgia for the vintage machines back into focusing on the modern era. Oh well, one can hope, can he not? That indeed, would be, "The Final Answer" and Maico would have it in spades!