Maico-the final answer

[JohnN]

Now here's a shocker... I like four-strokes.. well at least for certain situations.

Personally I don't care if a company builds four-strokes or not... but I do care about the ones that build two-strokes. I'm not quite as militant about the whole thing as some folks are.

What really bugs me in motocross are the slanted displacement rules... but you guys already knew that...

That other "M" word...

[riffraff]

I feel the same way as you do John, I fondly remember the old SL70, TT/XT 500, the 4 stroke nationals and all the other nostalgic 4 stroke stuff. As for the new 4 stroke wonders, they're cool looking sorta and they are dirtbikes, but I would never buy one and if someone gave me one I couldn't afford to ride it.

[JohnN]

if someone gave me one I couldn't afford to ride it.

I'd sell it.... 

[riffraff]

Don't know if I would sell it, I'd have to stuff my YZ490 engine in it.

[riffraff]

aahhh, a classic picture 

[JETZcorp]

That was a real $100,000 shot, right there.  DB lost thousands in ad revenue over that picture.  Then, when they gave the Elsinore a positive review, Honda ads just mysteriously started appearing again, like nothing had happened.  Here's what it says in Monkey Butt.

"We realized that a trial bike was far different from a race bike, and treated each test bike with its intended purpose in mind.  But when we received the Honda XL175 for a test, we concluded that this was a truly bad bike, no matter what its intended purpose was.
A four-stroke single, the Honda did nothing well.  It was under-powered, heavy, came with wretched tires, had a grim suspension, carbureted like a frog was stuck in the intake, and handled like the frame had a hinge in the middle.
We all agreed that the bike was a pig.  David got assigned the task of doing some kind of interesting photography for the test.  When I told him he ought to photograph it in a pig-pen, his eyes lit up and he gathered up his beloved Canons and headed off to get the job done.
We got the proof sheets back from the lab and howled with glee!  Swift had done it.  He located a farm in Newhall, where the owner kept animals that were used in movies.  The owner let David park the Honda in a pig-pen next to a large white sow, Nammed Dolly, and Dave ripped off a few rolls of film.
The lead photo we ran with the test had the pig staring intently at the Honda.  to add fuel to the fire, I had the art department put an "oink" cartoon bubble out of the Honda's exhaust pipe, and a question mark "thought balloon" over the pig.  We laughed our asses off at the finished product.
When the magazine hit the stands, the shit genuinely hit the fan!  Honda went berserk and called the boss, bitching to high heaven.  We got nasty letters from Honda dealers and ugly letters from people who truly liked that wretched little bike.
A meeting was held at our offices, and several Honda VPs showed up, looking very stern and sour-faced.  I sat there, flanked by David and Pete, trying to look serious, while the Honda people called us un-professional and a detriment to the profession, and so forth.
Bill tried to calm them down, and even offered them a cover on the next issue.  They didn't want any part of anything short of our asses in a sling.  One of the Honda VPs said that the real motorcycle magazines conducted themselves in a dignified manner.  I asked them what they thought a good motorcycle magazine was, and after thinking for a moment, he noted that Cycle Guide was a classy publication.
I cleared my throat.  "We outsell those pompous assholes four-to-one on the news stands.  If you mean classy as boring, then they're as classy as can be.  We're Number One on the news stands because people believe what we say.  And let's face it guys, the 175 is not your best effort."
After that, the conversation deteriorated into a yelling and shouting match, and the Honda people left in a huff.  Three days later, we received a notice from their ad agency that all Honda ads were being cancelled because of a lack of professionalism on our part.
Bill wasn't too thrilled about that, but Dirt Bike was still packed with ads and the sales were increasing each and every issue.  He had the golden goose laying eggs and realized it.
Some time later, we gave a Honda Elsinore a rave review, which it richly deserved, and suddenly Honda loved us dearly once again, and started running ads.
In fact, throughout the 1070 through 1974 era, we had to defend our position on certain bikes when we gave them a thorough roasting in a test.
Some of them readily to mind:

* There was the Yamaha SC-500, a 500cc two-stroke that seized constantly, handled like a bucket of shit, and had gruesome suspension components.  We noted it was the same color as a turkey and handled about the same.  Yamaha cancelled their ads, too, but renewed later on when they got a good write up on another bike that deserved it.
* Jawa/CZ went ballistic when we buried a CZ-250 enduro in the dirt, bolt upright like a crucifix, and mentioned that it was an embarrassing effort from the company that made the CZ MXers.
* When we tested the Spanish TT bikes, and noted that they blew up with regularity and had the quality control of a Chinese fire-drill, the phone lines damn near turned blue with calls from pissed-off people.
* We even ran into trouble with the legendary John Penton, when we tested the Penton Mud Lark (a 125cc Sachs-engined, Wassel-framed Trials bike) and called it "John Penton's Thousand-Dollar Blunder!"
* When we told the truth about how crummy Sachs gearboxes shifted, the dealers howled.  But people who had to live with the miserable shifting knew we were telling the exact truth.
* Suzuki dealers told their potential TM-400 customers that we were full of shit.  Riders who got injured on those bikes realized they should have listened to us.
* We called the Harley-Davidson 100cc Baja a "re-hashed Italian street bike," and Harley yanked their ads for a few months.
* Husqvarna came out with a real pile of crap in 1974 with their 450CR, and we told the readers that it was a bogus bike.  Husky refused to give us any more bikes for testing, so we went out and bought one from a dealer to test it.  After Husky changed bosses in the US, the new manager realized that it wasn't smart to feud with the press and made peace with us.  At the same time, they also came out with the new Mag Huskies, which were good bikes.  We gave them good reviews."

[riffraff]

Yep, Dirtbike and MXA were the ultimate reading material, wish I had all my old copies. Don't really bother with any bike magazines anymore

[opfermanmotors]

I was at the airport last month and I was looking for some reading material for he flight.  I searched for a good dirt bike magazine but alas I could only find street bike magazines.  The best I could find with any type of dirt bike mention was CYCLE WORLD.

So I purchased this wretched piece of shit magazine and read their ill founded idiotic reviews of the latest and crappiest dirt bikes.  Boy did it make my blood boil reading their lame ass review.  It has many flaws starting with the opening paragraph.

"Don't let displacement fool you: Not only have 250cc four-stroke motocrossers edged 125cc two-strokes out of the picture, they've pretty much created a class of their own.  Sure, the Lites class is still full of the youthful spirit associated with the 125cc bikes of the past but the performance is higher than ever..."

Ok, DON'T LET FUCKING DOUBLE DISPLACEMENT FOOL YOU INTO WHAT? THINKING THAT THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE? That fucking whole first sentence reads like it was written by a retarded sloth.  The sentence makes absolutely no fucking sense in the sane world.

Now, it does get better because their reviews of these bikes essentially have turned "4 strokes" on their heads, IMHO.  The reason is quite simple.  Four strokes in the past were said and had a wide power band.  They had pull from a low RPM to a high RPM, while not fast revving, they made good trail bikes for the semi-retarded.  Reading these reviews about these new four strokes read like two strokes.  Bravo Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki,  you've now turned four strokes into two strokes with less power than the eqvuilvent two stroke, more moving parts and yes, the same damn narrow power band that was the only thing four strokes were supposed to have an advantage with (with the execption of Maico, who got this right in a 2 stroke, they are still the most amazing engines ever produced and ever will be produced  

Some memorable quotes from this article.

"Bottom end delivery is completely flat, no immediate hit; the engine only starts doing some serious buissness way past the middle of the rpm range."

"But the YZ doesnt quite cut it in the power department, needing more oomph everywhere". 

"In engine performance, the KX-F has excellent midrange and top-end power but lacks a little punch right off the bottom where it lugs instead of having an abrupt pull."

My thoughts? Uh, sounds like a wanna be two stroke, isn't that a complaint they have against the two strokes? Narrow power bands?  I know the reviews are ridiculous and not to be taken seriously but still sounds fishy to me.  Oh and I LOVE the next quote.

"Okay, one tester that the engine was too abrupt in tis on/off throttle response.  Sissy!"

Oh wow, another complaint they have about 2 strokes being too hard hitting and uncontrollable, however when it's in a crap ass four stroke they love it and think it's great.  I remember a recent Maico article where they complained they peed their pants attempting to ride it and liked the panties of the sissy four strokes.

For me, I don't really give a crap about double displacement.  These bikes are junk.  They should have kept the old four stroke, they had purpose, they lasted longer for all their moving parts and they were different from two strokes.  Now, they are just trying to be two strokes and failing miserably.  Trash this crap and melt it down into connecting rods, pistons and bearings for the old Maicos and KTMs is what I say.

There was one interesting article though after this one that talked about how expensive maintaining a 4 stroke was and at the end had shit LULZ quote:

"Many an MX dad has asked his district referee if there's any way to bring back that simple machine, the two-stroke."

If anyone is interested, I will scan it this article for the LAWLZ.

[admiral]

oh no, not a Cycle World MX bike test. the WORST dirt bike test of all American mags. i remember the last one i read back when the Honda was still making steel framed CR's. they said the CR250 was too fast.. what? are you kidding? are you all a bunch beginers? that's was the last time i ever looked at that mag again.

[JohnN]

"Many an MX dad has asked his district referee if there's any way to bring back that simple machine, the two-stroke."

If anyone is interested, I will scan it this article for the LAWLZ.

Could you please scan that... I'd love to read it.  

[TMKIWI]

I agree totally Opferman.

I know plenty of people looking to get back into riding and are stumped as to what to buy.
Now i'm not talking about experts here, just guys wanting to go riding.
There are not alot of choices for the average bloke without much mechanical ability.
You can buy a gutless bike like a XR, DRZ, TTR and such which is stone reliable ( and heavy ) but gives you no thrill.
Next up the tree are bikes like the KDX200's,RMX's which once uncorked go pretty good and stone reliable.
KLX300's were popular but people soon get rid of them once they spend a few rides trying to get the bloody thing to go when hot.
I know, I had one a couple of years ago.
Too many people are scared to buy a 250F because of the maintenance issue's. Guy's i know who can afford it, buy a 250F new and then get rid of it after 12 month's before something goes wrong.
Which leaves us with 2 STROKES.
The number of smokers is increasing all the time as people realise they can have the thrill and excitement in a cost effective bike.
I see more & more every ride from old WR's to newer bikes.
One of the most popular bikes for guy's over 40: 300 2 Strokes. 

[JETZcorp]

And the vintage scene is getting big, too.  Where once you had to magically know a particular guru to find X part from Y bike of Z year, now you can just hit the internet and get practically anything you want, unless you're working on a KTM.  And, from my experience, they tend to be pretty damn reliable, too.  Probably not as much so as a 280lb trail turd, but certainly leagues better than any 250F.  Oh, and let's not forget that something like half of the vintage bikes are open-classers, which are excellent for easy riding because they have so much low end to crawl around with.

[opfermanmotors]

Here are the two articles from the Cycle World, I scanned them into a PDF.

http://www.maicowerk.com/Articles/PDF/cycleworld_4_stroke_crap.pdf

[TMKIWI]

"And big jump landings on the Honda feel more like your touching down on a bed of feathers"
WHAT?

Sounds like a press release from Honda.
Strange bike test.

I like the last page " A look inside these phenomenal 250cc four-strokes.
The last paragraph say's it all. " is there any way to bring back that simple machine, the two-stroke."

Thanks for shareing that.