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Author Topic: OK EVO,it was your idea........  (Read 18379 times)

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Offline ford832

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« on: April 10, 2013, 12:50:00 AM »
Suggested title: Why my 10 year old YZ will kick your 2013 Ktm 300's butt.
Oh and invite racerx, I want to have some fun with this.

I have a ten yr old YZ and I want in on this. :P
To answer your question,how about because I'm riding my old YZ and you're riding your new KTM and there's not enough to pick and choose between the machinery to make up for the lesser rider-regardless of which bike he was mounted on.
Jeram was likely just annoyed for having to listen to one more person spewing how KTM continues to develop 2t technology-apparently by changing plastic style and graphics.It does get a little old really.

KTM makes a good bike but I didn't think anyone actually swallowed that "KTM Family" hokey sales pitch. :<img src=" title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline gpnewhouse7

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 01:08:14 AM »
Suggested title: Why my 10 year old YZ will kick your 2013 Ktm 300's butt.
Oh and invite racerx, I want to have some fun with this.

I have a ten yr old YZ and I want in on this. :P
To answer your question,how about because I'm riding my old YZ and you're riding your new KTM and there's not enough to pick and choose between the machinery to make up for the lesser rider-regardless of which bike he was mounted on.
Jeram was likely just annoyed for having to listen to one more person spewing how KTM continues to develop 2t technology-apparently by changing plastic style and graphics.It does get a little old really.

KTM makes a good bike but I didn't think anyone actually swallowed that "KTM Family" hokey sales pitch. :<img src=" title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">

I was hoping someone would make this a post.

For starters Ford you saying that the difference between the two bikes isnt enough to make up for a talent difference between the two riders aboard them is like saying that an xr100 is as fast as a 2013 crf450 because if James Stewart was on the xr and me on the crf he could make up for the difference by being a better rider.

Also for the sake of the board could you all please state if you have rode both bikes or not and what years they were and the cc etc.
I have rode a 06 yz125,02 sx 125, 03 sx125, 08 exc 200 and an 11 150 sx and while the yz was easily more reliable and better handling than the 02 and the 03, the 08 and 11 bikes proved to be more reliable and both me and my mate think they handle better aswell.

Also if you've ever rode a KTM for a day or more's worth of riding and then jumped back on the Yamaha then you'd soon wish you had a hydraulic clutch on the YZ.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline cnrcpla

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 01:34:31 AM »
I own a 20 year old YZ (She's got some modern tech in her, don't call her old just yet!) and I have to agree with who ever said that the two stroke engine design hasn't changed much since the PV invention back in the late 80's. Why change what's already really good? Just because we are forced to compete at ridiculous handicaps to appease the fooper troopers doesn't mean we should be looking to change the engine design. Think about it, recent engine designs have generated little HP that the average rider can even use, so most of this argument is for no reason. IF there is an AA pro here who would like to argue that a KTM engine puts out a few more usable ponies than I wont argue back, BUT most of us don't use those few extra horses. Now, on to a part of the bike that has changed, suspension. The newer suspension is awesome, plain and simple. But, it is not hard to remain competitive on a 10 year old bike. It comes down to the rider (I beat you to saying it Stu!  ;D ) And now to the frame. Lets see if I can add to this sh*t stirring contest... Which is better, ALU or STEEL?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline gpnewhouse7

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 01:45:21 AM »
Seen as its a KTM vs Yamaha debate not an sx 250 vs yz 250 debate then I'd say that you need all the extra power you can get when racing the 125 class and I'd also say that the orange machine puts its extra ponies onto the ground a little better aswell.

Also for the sake of the 250's I'd rather be on the bike with the extra few ponies just in case rather than the one thats a few short.

And I did my best to stop people using the 'it all comes down to the rider' idea by using that xr crf analogy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline cnrcpla

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 01:52:34 AM »
I thought it was between the 300 ktm and the 10 y/o yz250s?  :- In that case, most of what was said above applies still. I definitely agree that over powered is better than underpowered, and I didn't take 125's into consideration because of what I though this was about. But still, the 10 y/o YZ puts out 48HP stock and the KTM 250sx made 50. Would you REALLY notice the extra 2? I'm not impartial on either brand, just saying that the engines have not changed much.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline gpnewhouse7

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 02:05:07 AM »
It may well have been about the 250s but I cant sleep and have nothing better to do and so seen as I havent ridden either 250 then I'm bringing 125s into it ha.

And of course you would notice 2hp! its like when people put induction kits on their 1l cars its an instant feeling of extra power!

On a serious note I think you'd probably be just as quick on either bike but you'd be faster for longer on the KTM. Besides orange is a better colour.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline ford832

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 02:16:48 AM »


I was hoping someone would make this a post.

For starters Ford you saying that the difference between the two bikes isnt enough to make up for a talent difference between the two riders aboard them is like saying that an xr100 is as fast as a 2013 crf450 because if James Stewart was on the xr and me on the crf he could make up for the difference by being a better rider.

Also for the sake of the board could you all please state if you have rode both bikes or not and what years they were and the cc etc.
I have rode a 06 yz125,02 sx 125, 03 sx125, 08 exc 200 and an 11 150 sx and while the yz was easily more reliable and better handling than the 02 and the 03, the 08 and 11 bikes proved to be more reliable and both me and my mate think they handle better aswell.

Also if you've ever rode a KTM for a day or more's worth of riding and then jumped back on the Yamaha then you'd soon wish you had a hydraulic clutch on the YZ.


I don't know your abilities gpnewhouse put if you're putting yourself in with JS7, you are a true talent indeed. :o
It's a lot of a reach to compare average riders and 450's and Pro riders and XR 100's-especially when  we're talking about similar displacement MX 2t's and average TSM forum member riders.I really don't see how you come up with that.
My YZ clutch works just fine.I've got a long lever,cable and pivot well lubed and the perch is moved in towards the centre of the bar for max leverage.I can two finger it easily.That said,a hydro clutch is the cat's arse-but not a deal breaker-and also has nothing to do with "KTM's continuous development  of 2t technolgy" :<img src=" title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">

I don't know Evo's abilities but I'd be willing to bet whoever was faster,would be faster on either machine.
My main riding buddy beats me almost all the time-regardless of what bikes we own.He just happens to be a better rider than me.
By the same token,the people I beat-and those who beat me have remained pretty  constant over the years-regardless of machinery-though none of us are James Stewart and none of us ride XR100's.

I'm too old to remember everything as around here we all like to trade off whenever someone gets a new steed or just try them out after the race around the track a bit.I'll take a crack it it though....

KTM's I've owned from new:

'00 125 EXC
'02 125 SX
'05 Husaberg FE550e(still a Katoom-so there)

KTM's I've ridden-some extensively,others one or two rides.

02 200 EXC
03 250 SX
05 250 EXC
06 450 EXC
What year was the 400? Two of those and a 525
I rode an MXC something but forget which-200 maybe?
08 200
10 300
11 300
Husaberg 470
Husaberg 650 (yah-freakin-hoo)
Husaberg 450 x 3
Husaberg 550 x 2 (other than my own)
Something like that and a few others-I may have some of the years off by one or two.

Other Euro's

Husky 125's-2 one older,one newer but neither of the "new" look.I forget the years.
Gasgas 125
Gasgas 250
Gasgas300


Jap I've owned

99 RM 125-I bought new
01 YZ 125
02 YZ250
XR250

Jap ridden:

CR125-few of these
CR250-and these
CR500-just one
RM125 and 250 (some)
KX125/250 (some)
YZ's-some of both
KDX220 and 200
CRF 250R
CRF 450R
CRF 450X
KXF250
RMZ250

Cripes,I don't know-some other stuff of whatever years.
I assume you want to make sure someone has ridden the "new tech KTM's" and the "old tech japs"
In my case,yes.


Update....
KLX300
Honda trials-SL I think?
Yamaha trials -TY?
Montessa Cota 315r..sweeeeeetttt.
Couple of IT's and DT's-only 1 490

Another update
XL250
XR400
XR600
XRL 650
DRZ 400
KLX400
Can AM 250
Can Am 400
XL175

Oo,wait,gotta couple more...
Z50's
XL80
RM80
CR80
YZ80
KX80
PW50
JR50
TTR 125
RT 100
LEM 50
CRF 100
 
Yeah,ok,bottom feeding a little now ;D so I'll call that close enough.How'd I do gpnewhouse?Do I qualify? ;)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline ford832

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 02:20:43 AM »
I'd disagree that overpowered is better than underpowered.You'll go faster on something you can ride 8/10ths than something you can ride 4/10ths-every time without exception.

Where do you possibly get the idea that a KTM puts it's power to the ground better than anything else.I can honestly say,in all my years around bikes-I've never heard that from anyone-or experienced it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline Jeram

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 02:40:45 AM »
I dont want to get involved in this thread haha.


I will say though that if KTMs development was so extensive, then why could I take a YZ, apply some mild porting, reeds and a pipe and have a motor capable of taking on an 250SX?
1 evening with a dremel and a few hundred dollars in parts can bridge the gap that 10 years of KTM R&D provided, a bit odd isnt it?


Yes, I know the KTM250 is a cracker of a motor, but to me it should be a whole lot more after 10 years. Im talking about trying new things which are truely inovative like Yamaha with the YPVS, Kawasaki with the KIPS KX500, Honda with the 250AR ignition, Fantic with the adjustable chassis geometry, Ossa with the rearward exhaust engine, Honda with the first Ally Framed mass production MX bike.

There is alot more development out there to be taken advantage of, their just choosing not to do it.

The superkart racers are building what should be a 70rwhp CR250 motor by copying an aprilia GP cylinder.
Take on of these, lower all the ports back down to OEM levels and you'd probably have a beast of a 55hp 250MX motor with power everywhere.

The superkart racers and others also have experimented with two stage powervalves which I beleive allows the exhuast valve to have a longer actuation range while staying aligned with the piston face for good sealing. that equates to more bottom end OR more top end (take your pick) depending on whether you choose to use the extra movement to open it further or close it further..

Sure a 6 speed box is nice and so is a hydraulic clutch, but there are ways to get closer to matching the 450's but it requires inovation.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline ford832

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 02:52:47 AM »
I dont want to get involved in this thread haha.



Lol ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.

Offline factoryX

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 04:49:35 AM »
Because when it comes down to it, ktm did the porting for you  ;D

All kidding aside with available modern two stroke tech(Not even including EFI) the bikes currently on the market are embarrassing. KTM is on top, but the reason the yz excels is due to that SSS suspension. Its really that good.  :P The joke about the yz is that they can made to do anything, its freaking hilarious. I can make it into the worlds best mx bike, or an insane off roader, but the main issue is that you have to spend more money to do so while you could have bought a purpose built bike to begin with. The yz isn't bad, its just not that good.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline TMKIWI

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 08:54:28 AM »
Now I see your problem ford.
You have riden lots of bikes, but you still havn't riden the best yet.
Shame on you.
Get back to me once you have tried a TM. ;)
Carry on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline Jeram

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 09:01:14 AM »
hahaha :P


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline metal_miracle

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 11:12:47 AM »
Having ridden many yz 250`s  and owning a new ktm 250

the only thing i feel is better on the yz is the front forks..

the rest of the package seems more of a preference ..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline ford832

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OK EVO,it was your idea........
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 11:20:40 AM »
Now I see your problem ford.
You have riden lots of bikes, but you still havn't riden the best yet.
Shame on you.
Get back to me once you have tried a TM. ;)
Carry on.

I can't really argue that as it is a glaring omission in my repertoire that does bother me. :(
You need to bring yours over so I can take a crack at it.I'll supply fuel,food,parts and all the beer and rum you can drink. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
I'd rather a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.