Everyone questions the two stroke decision

[snook620]

no, what you ride does not make you stupid.

but if you pulled up to a guy on a KX105 supermini on your KLX110 and started giving hi the 7th degree on how bad ass your fourstroke 110 is, and why the supermini guy should "upgrade", then yea, let's just say you would not be a front runner for the nobel prize in astro-physics.

Just bustin your grapes bro

I can definitely see the logic there. If I could put a bad ass head and suspension on it I definitely know which one Id rather ride. Id absolutly kill myself through a bmx rythem section on a 105  haha

I dont like it when anyone tries to say what they have is better than whos ever. Ride what you want and do your talking on the track. If your beating the guy whos telling you to upgrade then how stupid does he look? An upgrade to one person isnt always an upgrade to another is what I would have said.

[dsrtrider48]

I have two riding buddys with 450 4t that parked their 450's and just bought used cr250's 2t because they dont were them out as much.  they take the 2t to desert and track.

[msambuco]

in the 80s and 90s you actually needed the new bike to be competitive.  that stopped in around 05-06.  but back in 92, if you didnt get the 93, you were getting raped.  also, the build quality was much lower, so chances were your 92 model was completely clapped at 30 hours.

Throwing jabs at older bikes is just what you do huh ?

He's not throwing jabs. The bikes today are built way better than back then. In 1985 I had a new CR250 that I raced every week in the amatuer class. I needed another one to finish the season around August. The frame was mashed into the engine cases and the thing was totally worn out. We all love the old bikes. My 08 YZ250 has about as much time on it as about two of those amatuer seasons. Never had the top end off. Only wear items were brakes, head bearing, front wheel bearings, and a few spokes (which was my fault). Biggest maintainance is fork bushings and suspention fluids. You can buy a KTMSX or YZ and run it hard for at least 3 seasons If you go through it each off season).

[chump6784]

in the 80s and 90s you actually needed the new bike to be competitive.  that stopped in around 05-06.  but back in 92, if you didnt get the 93, you were getting raped.  also, the build quality was much lower, so chances were your 92 model was completely clapped at 30 hours.

I remember the 90's like that, I wasn't riding in the 80's. I used to get a new bike every year cos I pretty much had to. Now I ride an 07 RM which other than some engine changes is pretty much the same as an 01 and still has the same suspension components as a 2012 rmz

[MetalMike1982]

in the 80s and 90s you actually needed the new bike to be competitive.  that stopped in around 05-06.  but back in 92, if you didnt get the 93, you were getting raped.  also, the build quality was much lower, so chances were your 92 model was completely clapped at 30 hours.

Throwing jabs at older bikes is just what you do huh ?

are you emotionally attached to pre-00 bikes?

 I'm emotionally attached to ALL 2 stroke bikes and have been ever since I got my 1st one .  I just dont like the shit talking about them . I've owned plenty of 80's and 90's bikes and they were great bikes . Never had pegs fly off or had  one turn into a clapper after 2 rides , they held up just as good as the newer bikes I've had .  The 91 cr125 I currently have along with an 03 rm125  and the 91 feels way more solid than the 03 . Wheels bearings last longer than 4 months and the suspension seals have yet to even so much as weep in the 3 years I've owned it , the 03 on the other hand eats bearings like no tommorrow , spokes need tightening after just about every ride and is about to get the fork seals replaced (again) along with the crank . I've owned the honda longer and its cost a lot less to maintain over the years than the 03rm handsdown . The 91 still has tight suspension, no play in the crank bearings , has the original wheels and all the spokes are tight and STAY tight .   I have the comparison between  old and new in my garage as we speak so i'm sorry guys but I know better .

Nothing like schooling a bunch of fartstrokes at Dade shitty on a bike older than most of the kids riding f's and I'm no Mcgrath so It's not like i'm doing something special out there , the bike is more than capable.

 

[cnrcpla]

I have to beg to differ with you guys here about the 90's bikes. The YZ in my sig down there went 200+ hours with out a single bolt turned in the engine. Granted it isn't stock by any means, but still.

[Recovered]

I have to beg to differ with you guys here about the 90's bikes. The YZ in my sig down there went 200+ hours with out a single bolt turned in the engine. Granted it isn't stock by any means, but still.

What about everything around it?

[xandyx]

i think it worths buying a fresh bike when you have/had a racing career or you're an average rider.

some guys i know are just weekend riders, they also get lot's of bolt on parts but they don't even feel the difference due to lack of tracks or good trails were someone else needs to be competitive to require mods or new bikes every year.

you guys in the states have great conditions to get into the sport and make good progress, even if you're not an A class rider, you guys can kick ass.

[Recovered]

i think it worths buying a fresh bike when you have/had a racing career or you're an average rider.

some guys i know are just weekend riders, they also get lot's of bolt on parts but they don't even feel the difference due to lack of tracks or good trails were someone else needs to be competitive to require mods or new bikes every year.

you guys in the states have great conditions to get into the sport and make good progress, even if you're not an A class rider, you guys can kick ass.

I feel your pain. I lived outside the USA for 4 years and I used to think to myself how difficult it would be to race motocross where I was.  I didn't even bother.  Just sat out.  There was one dinky little track that barely qualified as a pit bike track, and the owner of the property was a scandalous little Japanese shit.

Luckily, the Philippines was so close, and that became my hobby for 4 years.

[cnrcpla]

What about everything around it?

What do you mean? Frame is stock plastics are stock, engine has been ported, bored over a little, wiseco piston, dyno racing ports expansion chamber, FMF turbine core tail pipe, After market clutch, sprockets, chain, suspension. Oh and the rims as far as I know are stock. The only thing holding me back from buying a new bike is starting all over again. And have you ever smoked someone's brand new bike on a 90's bike? That feeling is priceless.  Not to mention, with all the work to my 250, it's just as good as any brand new bike. I have ridden newer YZ's and I honestly can't feel much of a difference, except for handling and a different power band range.

[dogger315]

in the 80s and 90s you actually needed the new bike to be competitive.  that stopped in around 05-06

I agree with the first statement from a payout perspective, but the second statement makes no sense.
Are you saying that the bikes built in 05-06 were still competitive in let's say 08-09, but a 92-93 bike
was not competitive in 95-96?  And that the bikes built back in the 90s were not built as well as today's
bikes?

A racer would buy a new bike every season back then in order to qualify for the contingency money
the manufacturers paid out.  You were only eligible if you were racing a current year bike.  There were
no earth shattering changes from year to year in the 90s.  A 93 design could still win races at the
highest level of competition in 96 - just ask Jeremy McGrath.

From personal experince, my new race bikes are no more reliable, faster, durable or better constructed
than many bikes I raced in the 90s, and they are just as used up at the end of the season as my 90s
bikes, maybe more so with the Aluminum frames. 

dogger

[maicoman009]

in the 80s and 90s you actually needed the new bike to be competitive.  that stopped in around 05-06

I agree with the first statement from a payout perspective, but the second statement makes no sense.
Are you saying that the bikes built in 05-06 were still competitive in let's say 08-09, but a 92-93 bike
was not competitive in 95-96?  And that the bikes built back in the 90s were not built as well as today's
bikes?

A racer would buy a new bike every season back then in order to qualify for the contingency money
the manufacturers paid out.  You were only eligible if you were racing a current year bike.  There were
no earth shattering changes from year to year in the 90s.  A 93 design could still win races at the
highest level of competition in 96 - just ask Jeremy McGrath.

From personal experince, my new race bikes are no more reliable, faster, durable or better constructed
than many bikes I raced in the 90s, and they are just as used up at the end of the season as my 90s
bikes, maybe more so with the Aluminum frames. 

dogger

Tell em' dogger! I agree with ya 100% & I miss a lot of those 90's bikes as they all well mostly all of the brands had cromoly steel frames which imo are a much better material to make a dirt bike frame. The engines on the 90's 2-strokes where reliable & still can be with some work & updated parts! I also recall the 90's 4-strokes & although they were'nt as fast or powerful as the current crop of 4t's they were much more reliable & not like the time bomb 4-strokes are today!....

[Stusmoke]

I've always said I can order in a full engine rebuild for my bike for roughly the same price it costs to do the valves at my local dealership. Some of you are probably gonna try to call bullshit but until you've rung up Top Two Motorcycles Warwick and gotten a quote for new valves in say a 2011 CRF250R don't say a word. That statement is based on figures from my local Australian dealer.

Honestly though, if people are totally sweet with spending all this money on these mongrel pieces of shit, who are we to argue? If both engine types are put in fair class comparisons and all the manufacturers start making the bastards again who cares? And anyone telling me that cc vs cc is fair needs to go back to school. We all hate that the four strokes are given such a massive advantage but you're willing to turn around and do the same thing to the four stroke lovers? That is not fair. If the classes become fair who cares what bike people ride?

[chump6784]

I've always said I can order in a full engine rebuild for my bike for roughly the same price it costs to do the valves at my local dealership. Some of you are probably gonna try to call bullshit but until you've rung up Top Two Motorcycles Warwick and gotten a quote for new valves in say a 2011 CRF250R don't say a word. That statement is based on figures from my local Australian dealer.

Honestly though, if people are totally sweet with spending all this money on these mongrel pieces of shit, who are we to argue? If both engine types are put in fair class comparisons and all the manufacturers start making the bastards again who cares? And anyone telling me that cc vs cc is fair needs to go back to school. We all hate that the four strokes are given such a massive advantage but you're willing to turn around and do the same thing to the four stroke lovers? That is not fair. If the classes become fair who cares what bike people ride?

Are you talking about a full 2 stroke rebuild for the price of 4 stroke valves, if so i believe you. I have looked into it just out of curiosity and am so glad a got a 2 stroke
As someone who races in the 250 class in Australia i believe that cc vs cc is fair. Yes the two stroke make more power but it is harder to use, it is easier to make mistakes with and doesn't put its power down as well. Hit the gas too early on the two stroke and the back will break loose and slide all over the place. The four stroke just pushes the front end a little bit. Get the two stroke to hook up though and you will reap the rewards.
 At one track i race at regularly it is sand based. I feel i have an advantage at that track, at another track i visit regularly it is hard packed with short straights and i feel the 4 stroke has the advantage there.
Also power isnt everything. Look at the lap times at hangtown, the 250's were running the same time while they were battling for the lead as stewart was when he was out on his own.

If Roger DeCoster thinks cc vs cc is good then that is good enough for me

[VintageBlueSmoke]

@Premix - Okinawa? There used to be a great MX track there (20 years !). Not so much Enduro or trail. PI? Awesome Enurdo and trail riding. The base (Clark) actually had an (official) dirt bike club. Their trail rides were legendary! Some multi day events, really cool locals and had everything from Beginnner to Xtreme! Plus you could stop off in the ally on the way back...for a bath. 

As for having to upgrade bikes, there were ERA's that made big differences. Early '70s was when the 2T came into vogue. Husky, Bultaco, CZ, Maico...it was a great time and each bike was very different from the next. In the mid '70's came the long suspension and reed valves. Hp went up and so did travel. You'd be hard pressed to be an A rider on a '72 Husky keeping up with a fast B on '75 Husky GP Mag. Then came the '80 and disk brakes and water cooling. Water cooling was important because Hp would drop drastically by the end of the moto. That was fine when everyone was air cooled, but it only took one guy to show up and have 10 more Hp at the end of the moto and you were off to the dealer...Disk brakes were huge. Premix commented on Tichnor nose wheeling into corners, I was still on drums back then. He was amazing! He could have been on an 80 and beat me with his higher corner speeds. The next big change was suspensions and cartridge forkes. Sure, you could get Simmons (Fox) or Fox Air Shocks (developed by Simons) but when all the manufactures changed to them...And then the power valve made all that power usable. Off to the dealer again...

That was it. Bold new graphics. Maybe the minor tweeks over a several year period made them more competitive (say a '91 to an '01) but nothing game changing. Nothing that would get you moved up a class.

Like posted, you bought a new bike because you thrashed the old one or you wanted contingency money.