Everyone questions the two stroke decision

[Recovered]

@Premix - Okinawa? There used to be a great MX track there (20 years !). Not so much Enduro or trail. PI? Awesome Enurdo and trail riding. The base (Clark) actually had an (official) dirt bike club. Their trail rides were legendary! Some multi day events, really cool locals and had everything from Beginnner to Xtreme! Plus you could stop off in the ally on the way back...for a bath. 

As for having to upgrade bikes, there were ERA's that made big differences. Early '70s was when the 2T came into vogue. Husky, Bultaco, CZ, Maico...it was a great time and each bike was very different from the next. In the mid '70's came the long suspension and reed valves. Hp went up and so did travel. You'd be hard pressed to be an A rider on a '72 Husky keeping up with a fast B on '75 Husky GP Mag. Then came the '80 and disk brakes and water cooling. Water cooling was important because Hp would drop drastically by the end of the moto. That was fine when everyone was air cooled, but it only took one guy to show up and have 10 more Hp at the end of the moto and you were off to the dealer...Disk brakes were huge. Premix commented on Tichnor nose wheeling into corners, I was still on drums back then. He was amazing! He could have been on an 80 and beat me with his higher corner speeds. The next big change was suspensions and cartridge forkes. Sure, you could get Simmons (Fox) or Fox Air Shocks (developed by Simons) but when all the manufactures changed to them...And then the power valve made all that power usable. Off to the dealer again...

That was it. Bold new graphics. Maybe the minor tweeks over a several year period made them more competitive (say a '91 to an '01) but nothing game changing. Nothing that would get you moved up a class.

Like posted, you bought a new bike because you thrashed the old one or you wanted contingency money.

The Okinawa motocross track was on Kadena airbase and it has been gone for 15 years.

[Stusmoke]

I've always said I can order in a full engine rebuild for my bike for roughly the same price it costs to do the valves at my local dealership. Some of you are probably gonna try to call bullshit but until you've rung up Top Two Motorcycles Warwick and gotten a quote for new valves in say a 2011 CRF250R don't say a word. That statement is based on figures from my local Australian dealer.

Honestly though, if people are totally sweet with spending all this money on these mongrel pieces of shit, who are we to argue? If both engine types are put in fair class comparisons and all the manufacturers start making the bastards again who cares? And anyone telling me that cc vs cc is fair needs to go back to school. We all hate that the four strokes are given such a massive advantage but you're willing to turn around and do the same thing to the four stroke lovers? That is not fair. If the classes become fair who cares what bike people ride?

Are you talking about a full 2 stroke rebuild for the price of 4 stroke valves, if so i believe you. I have looked into it just out of curiosity and am so glad a got a 2 stroke
As someone who races in the 250 class in Australia i believe that cc vs cc is fair. Yes the two stroke make more power but it is harder to use, it is easier to make mistakes with and doesn't put its power down as well. Hit the gas too early on the two stroke and the back will break loose and slide all over the place. The four stroke just pushes the front end a little bit. Get the two stroke to hook up though and you will reap the rewards.
 At one track i race at regularly it is sand based. I feel i have an advantage at that track, at another track i visit regularly it is hard packed with short straights and i feel the 4 stroke has the advantage there.
Also power isnt everything. Look at the lap times at hangtown, the 250's were running the same time while they were battling for the lead as stewart was when he was out on his own.

If Roger DeCoster thinks cc vs cc is good then that is good enough for me

I think instead of going all the way on the cc vs cc thing it would be good to reduce the maximum displacement of the FOUR STROKES in the 125 class to 180 or 200 MAXIMUM. That way the 125s get a little bit of horsepower advantage and we all get to keep the ring ding ding ding buzz of the true 125cc motocrosser that we all love. In hardpack conditions the four joke might pull ahead a little, but when theres an outside like it will be left chugging through the corner while the 125s rail their screaming asses around the berm. That'd be the best way to go in my opinion

[MetalMike1982]

I have to beg to differ with you guys here about the 90's bikes. The YZ in my sig down there went 200+ hours with out a single bolt turned in the engine. Granted it isn't stock by any means, but still.

Better be careful with that anemic 90's pos . I wouldnt even so much as stare to hard at it or things will start bending and breaking clapper style .   

 Getting easier to tell the difference between the people on here who actually ride dirtbikes and the people who ride desk chairs behind a computer . " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">

[cnrcpla]

All I'm saying is that YZ down there has been through terrain that can bring modern bikes to their knees. I don't need people to tell me what bike I should ride, or what year is best. I ride what I ride and I am used to my bike. It has been through a lot with me, and I don't need a brand new bike with the latest and greatest for me to have fun, or be fast. I may only be a weekend warrior, but I do well enough to put a good name out for two strokes and to have fun. Not to mention, Yamaha hasn't changed much anyways...  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">

[Brap]

I have to beg to differ with you guys here about the 90's bikes. The YZ in my sig down there went 200+ hours with out a single bolt turned in the engine. Granted it isn't stock by any means, but still.

my 99 RM125 went 250+ without a bolt turned to haha, just a new back tire

[cnrcpla]

my 99 RM125 went 250+ without a bolt turned to haha, just a new back tire

Yeah man, same here. My old rear tire was bald... hahaha 

[TotalNZ]

You guys must just cruise around and trail ride alot. There's no way in hell you could get 250 hours racing hard.

[scotty dog]

You guys must just cruise around and trail ride alot. There's no way in hell you could get 250 hours racing hard.

That is true, racing a bike is very hard on it, even if you dont touch it for a season its gunna be pretty worn by the end of it. I havent raced in years and barely ride these days but when i did i had to maintain my bikes or they would fall to bits, and i consider that maintenance, wheel bearings, suspension bearings, pistons, rings, new gear, brake n clutch levers, cables, spark plugs, chains n sprockets as "turning a bolt".........

[Stusmoke]

I fail to see how an engine that hasn't had anything groundbreaking happen to it since the '80s can be shitty and breaking all the time in the 90s, then in the 2000's all of a sudden be unbreakable.

 

All I'm saying is that YZ down there has been through terrain that can bring modern bikes to their knees. I don't need people to tell me what bike I should ride, or what year is best. I ride what I ride and I am used to my bike. It has been through a lot with me, and I don't need a brand new bike with the latest and greatest for me to have fun, or be fast. I may only be a weekend warrior, but I do well enough to put a good name out for two strokes and to have fun. Not to mention, Yamaha hasn't changed much anyways...  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">

Really... What else needs to be said.

[scotty dog]

I fail to see how an engine that hasn't had anything groundbreaking happen to it since the '80s can be shitty and breaking all the time in the 90s, then in the 2000's all of a sudden be unbreakable

Probably better materials used making them with the later models, not so much in the way of engine developement, they do last longer, i had a 90 YZ 125 which i had in 92, the cases were worn out were the mains go causing the crank to move a good 2-3 mm sideways, which caused the magneto to break. I bought the bike from the local Yamaha dealer and was extremely well maintained and wasnt ridden a great deal before i got it.

[cnrcpla]

You guys must just cruise around and trail ride alot. There's no way in hell you could get 250 hours racing hard.

You are right. I was out for a season due to a foot injury and that 200 hours was all trails. My point was that the engine is not going to grenade every hour of riding just because its from the 90's...

[TotalNZ]

You guys must just cruise around and trail ride alot. There's no way in hell you could get 250 hours racing hard.

You are right. I was out for a season due to a foot injury and that 200 hours was all trails. My point was that the engine is not going to grenade every hour of riding just because its from the 90's...

No definately not, I've got a 94 CR250 and it's a brilliant bike although i think the quality of components has improved alot on the new bikes.
Over the same 200 odd hour period on my CR, racing few Xcountrys bit of moto but mostly fast trail riding I've gone through 1 complete rebuild ie every bearing and seal in the motor, 4 pistons, 1 fork rebuild and around 3 sets of seals, 1 shock rebuild, i set of clutch plates and i've filed the basket twice now so it needs replaced. 3 chain and sprocket sets, numerous brake pad and wheel bearing changes along with 2 or 3 muffler rebuilds.
Oh and about 3 rear mudguards.
Wish you could do 250 hours and not touch anything.

[cnrcpla]

I didn't do anything to the engine. Of course I had to do wheel bearings, some suspension bearings, an air filter and a tire. Those things have to be one no matter what year bike you have, but I was mainly talking about the engine. I do agree technology has come a long way in new bikes, but it doesn't necessarily make them eons ahead of 80's and 90's bikes.

[MetalMike1982]

 Bottom line is ANY bike new or old has to be maintained in order to last .


I would seriously love to know what "components" are made better from the 90's to current . My 21 yr old cr125 is making my o3 rm look more and more overated everytime I ride it .   My lap times have gotten better since riding the oldie and it dosent need new parts everytime I turn around unlike the suzuki.  I spoke with a  well known pro that raced and won in the 90's at my local track last night about this matter and he laughed and asked how many people claiming older bikes are cheap crap raced pro and actually won races ?  " title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> And said his early 90's rm's were some of his favorite bikes period .

[Stusmoke]

Bottom line is ANY bike new or old has to be maintained in order to last .


I would seriously love to know what "components" are made better from the 90's to current .

Agreed. Metal fabrication hasn't gone anywhere in about 30 years to the best of my knowledge. The most recent ground breaking advancement in particle physics was the super colider and that doesn't make bikes