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Offline Stusmoke

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2013, 07:52:39 AM »
A KTM 250 sale is most likely a KTM 450F loss. So, does KTM corporate want that? Not clear to me which bike sale nets them more money. That said one would think the KTM service folks net more from the 450F bike being out in the wild then a 250.  KTM has to play this card carefully. How can they present support such that a KTM250 sale takes a sale away from another manufacturer? Seems like that would be the real incentive.

So a rider that wants to by a Japanese brand but sees how well a KTM250SX is doing outdoors might be tempted if they realized how much less they would be spending over a couple of seasons to race one at the local level instead of a 250F/450F. 

Or am I just over thinking this? KTM may just want to support any professional organization that puts out a strong organized effort on their hardware?

There is not even the slightest doubt that KTM makes more money from 4-strokes than 2 just by sheer volume.  Just like Yamaha they manufacture just a handful of 2-strokes.  MXA put out numbers for 2013 that KTM produced a total of 54,000 off-road motorcycles.  Of that 12,000 were 2-strokes, and a large portion of those were mini bikes.  I don't think KTM really views 2-strokes as a threat to their income from 450s whether it be from initial purchase or long term parts use.  They know what the market will bear and do what they need to keep demand high.  Yamaha makes and imports just a few thousand YZ 250 units per year so they can keep the price high. 

Assuming those sales figures are accurate which sounds questionable, Theres your answer. Although I heard something that made me chuckle on the starting gate today. Guy next to me was talking up his 250 that hes using for hte time being cos his 250F exploded. He says to the guy on my other next to me, yeah I might not even rebuild my 250F eh, this things wicked  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2013, 09:25:17 AM »
Yamaha and the rest raised their prices of 2-strokes so as to not steal sales from the awesome 4-strokes that they all spend so much money promoting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline Stusmoke

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2013, 09:54:48 AM »
Yamaha and the rest raised their prices of 2-strokes so as to not steal sales from the awesome 4-strokes that they all spend so much money promoting.

A rather clever business tactic that really does hit two birds with one stone. First, it will remove one factor from someones new bike decision: Which is cheaper from the get go? Well atleast it will severely diminish it. I don't know what are the RRPs of a YZ250, YZ250F and YZ450F? And secondly they get some extra bucks from the die hards that for some reason are willing to cough it up for a company that puts every cent earned into the hardcore, lightspeed R&D of Yamahas BNG department. Oh and the leftover from the $100 spent on next years models' extensive R&D goes to four strokes. But atleast they still produce them. And a used YZ is a fantastic way to get into the sport. Were Yamaha to announce: No YZ two strokes starting 2015, I would imagine the price of used YZs would skyrocket. Yamaha should say that just to see what would happen, I'd like to know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline eprovenzano

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2013, 02:12:50 PM »
AWESOME job Charles and job well done to you and the rest of the TSM crew...   8) 8) 8) 8)

Charles now maybe you can get some well deserved rest before diving into the prep plans for 2014...   :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline mj4trax

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2013, 02:38:21 PM »
AWESOME job Charles and job well done to you and the rest of the TSM crew...   8) 8) 8) 8)

Charles now maybe you can get some well deserved rest before diving into the prep plans for 2014...   :D


x2
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline twosmoke595

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2013, 05:21:16 PM »
lol fat chance, charles is getting ready for his debut at the sleepy hollow 2 stroke shootout  :P :P :P :P

stay tuned bc there will be some BIG stuff happening
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline eprovenzano

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2013, 06:09:26 PM »
lol fat chance, charles is getting ready for his debut at the sleepy hollow 2 stroke shootout  :P :P :P :P

stay tuned bc there will be some BIG stuff happening

OK then...  let just hope he'll be sporting some TSM gear, and flying the TSM banner proudly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline _X_

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2013, 09:40:28 PM »
lol fat chance, charles is getting ready for his debut at the sleepy hollow 2 stroke shootout  :P :P :P :P

stay tuned bc there will be some BIG stuff happening
yeah like signing rattray.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline citabjockey

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2013, 10:40:21 PM »
How about signing Bubba?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Yamaha CT3, RT3, MX125, SC500, Toy Prius, Diesel F250 (it all balances out)

Offline Stusmoke

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2013, 05:22:51 AM »
How about signing Bubba?


This might have been intended as a joke, but it might not be come contract renewal time. Bubba has delivered nothing but disappointment to his Rockstar Energy/Suzuki team. They must be kicking themselves for signing him. Add to that the extremely poor sportsmanship he showed when bagging out hte YZ450F and I think hes gonna find it a little harder to pull a high end contract out of the hat. And so he should. His performance these last couple of years has been nothing short of disgraceful by the standards he is judged, that is, one the of the best riders in the world. I think his career peaked in 09.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline citabjockey

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2013, 06:24:23 AM »
This year has been better for him than last. Not crashing out near as much, seems to be much more careful. And he used to be a master on the two stroke bikes.


How about signing Bubba?


This might have been intended as a joke, but it might not be come contract renewal time. Bubba has delivered nothing but disappointment to his Rockstar Energy/Suzuki team. They must be kicking themselves for signing him. Add to that the extremely poor sportsmanship he showed when bagging out hte YZ450F and I think hes gonna find it a little harder to pull a high end contract out of the hat. And so he should. His performance these last couple of years has been nothing short of disgraceful by the standards he is judged, that is, one the of the best riders in the world. I think his career peaked in 09.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Yamaha CT3, RT3, MX125, SC500, Toy Prius, Diesel F250 (it all balances out)

Offline Stusmoke

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2013, 09:43:32 AM »
This year has been better for him than last. Not crashing out near as much, seems to be much more careful. And he used to be a master on the two stroke bikes.


How about signing Bubba?


This might have been intended as a joke, but it might not be come contract renewal time. Bubba has delivered nothing but disappointment to his Rockstar Energy/Suzuki team. They must be kicking themselves for signing him. Add to that the extremely poor sportsmanship he showed when bagging out hte YZ450F and I think hes gonna find it a little harder to pull a high end contract out of the hat. And so he should. His performance these last couple of years has been nothing short of disgraceful by the standards he is judged, that is, one the of the best riders in the world. I think his career peaked in 09.

This year has bee nthe better year? Last I checked he was SECOND LAST in points and he crashes out roughly 60% of his races. and THIS is the better year? In that case, my point is even more valid... I feel sorry for RE/Zooki though. He REALLY hasn't delivered. Not like a guy with his rep should anyway. Maybe he'll get a taste of his own medicine and they will break contract to get away from him and then piss on his rep on radio. But if it gets anymore piss on it the fire may go out...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2013, 11:24:00 AM »
The problem with Bubba is that when he does stay on two wheels, he is fast and knows how to win. No one will discount him and anyone would make a spot on their team for him (like Suzuki did last year). He also is a big draw for sponsors, regardless how we feel about him.

Good job this weekend, Charles. Hope we can cheer Robbie into the points next time!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline Stusmoke

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2013, 01:02:33 PM »
But if hes only on 2 wheels for half the time, doesn't that make it NOT worth it? I dunno anything aobut factory contracts but it just seems silly to gamble tens of millions on james when hes flat out keeping in the saddle. Like you said though, if hes in his zone, theres not much that can stop him. But today his zone is about as narrow and potent as the powerbands of the bikes he was good on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline citabjockey

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Charles how are you holding up through this stage of the season???
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2013, 02:59:58 PM »
JS7 so far this year:

Hangtown, 2rd
Thundervalley, 7th
Tennesee, 4th
High Point, 19th
Budds Creek, 12th
Southwick, 11th
Redbud, 2nd
Washougal, 3rd
Spring Creek, 1st
Unadilla, 11th

So yes, if you are after the championship this is not your guy. But this is an impressive record nevertheless. And if he could pull these same placings on a 250SX? It would be fun to see the Conniptions the big four would go through in that situation! He just has to get out of the money making mode and back into the fun mode (or any other speedy rider that wants to stir the pot).






This year has been better for him than last. Not crashing out near as much, seems to be much more careful. And he used to be a master on the two stroke bikes.


How about signing Bubba?


This might have been intended as a joke, but it might not be come contract renewal time. Bubba has delivered nothing but disappointment to his Rockstar Energy/Suzuki team. They must be kicking themselves for signing him. Add to that the extremely poor sportsmanship he showed when bagging out hte YZ450F and I think hes gonna find it a little harder to pull a high end contract out of the hat. And so he should. His performance these last couple of years has been nothing short of disgraceful by the standards he is judged, that is, one the of the best riders in the world. I think his career peaked in 09.

This year has bee nthe better year? Last I checked he was SECOND LAST in points and he crashes out roughly 60% of his races. and THIS is the better year? In that case, my point is even more valid... I feel sorry for RE/Zooki though. He REALLY hasn't delivered. Not like a guy with his rep should anyway. Maybe he'll get a taste of his own medicine and they will break contract to get away from him and then piss on his rep on radio. But if it gets anymore piss on it the fire may go out...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Yamaha CT3, RT3, MX125, SC500, Toy Prius, Diesel F250 (it all balances out)