ASK THE MXPERTS: WE PROPOSE A NO FORMULA TWO-STROKE FORMULA

[twosmoke595]

ear MXA,
If you were the rule makers what would you propose for engine size in the two classes to not give one engine type an advantage over another? Since a 450cc four-stroke overpowers a 250cc two-stroke, what size two-stroke would be equal to a 450 four-stroke? Would a 300cc bike be a match? 360? What would you suggest?

Handicapping is how the sport got in the mess it is in today. In order to promote four-stroke engines the AMA gave them a massive displacement advantage. Unfortunately, the AMA guessed wrong on the displacements and four-strokes have now far outstripped the two-strokes they were trying to match. We don?t think that formulas are the way to go. The AMA should change the rules to equalize the displacement in both the 250 and 450 classes. The powers-that-be could easily write a rule that says, ?The maximum displacement in the 250 class is 250cc regardless of the engine type and in the 450 class it is 450cc regardless of engine type."

[riffraff]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

[twosmoke595]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

exactly, no reason they shouldn't do that, and screw the other mfg who dont have 125's or 250 2 strokes anymore, the guys who would run the 250 2 strokes would most likely be privateers and smaller teams anyway so it shouldn't matter. And with the rockstar yamaha team, since they have so many riders, i'm sure at least one of them would ride a 250 2 stroke.

[luthier269]

Coming from some one who grew up racing in the late 70's and early 80's and involved in amature and pro racing, The 125/250/open class structure is time tested and true. It works the best. Now my son has been racing for the last 7 years and I see the total MESS the AMA has made out of our sport.
  Sad part is most of the racers today have no idea how good it used to be. I remember racing the winter am in the late 70's in the 125C class and we started a double gate with 80 bike's today you would be lucky to get 16 to 20 riders in the equivalent  250C class. We all know the reasons.
 Also I kept my son on a 125 when he left his 85. It fit him perfect and did not have scary power he learned how to make it go fast and loves it. Three years ago we were one of the only 125,s out there in the 250C class.
    Today most of the up and comming fast riders 13/14 year olds are all riding 125.s. Most of the tracks are now offering 125 two stroke only Class and are fielding 20 or more riders. Lots of new Yamahas and KTM's and even a few huskys and the huskys are kickin butt.
    Most of the tracks now run AMA amature rules 250 T against 250 F and they have been pretty even. And also have let open two strokes run against 450 four strokes last year I saw a guy on a 1979 or 80 yz465 and get the hole shot. Any way I've rambled on enough but the 125/250/open works best in my opinion!

[TMKIWI]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

x 1000.

[TotalNZ]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

WORD!

[shanes]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

ill vote for that 

[scotty dog]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

no argument here

[GlennC]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

no argument here

Anything else would be lame...

[citabjockey]

Coming from some one who grew up racing in the late 70's and early 80's and involved in amature and pro racing, The 125/250/open class structure is time tested and true. It works the best. Now my son has been racing for the last 7 years and I see the total MESS the AMA has made out of our sport.
  Sad part is most of the racers today have no idea how good it used to be. I remember racing the winter am in the late 70's in the 125C class and we started a double gate with 80 bike's today you would be lucky to get 16 to 20 riders in the equivalent  250C class. We all know the reasons.
 Also I kept my son on a 125 when he left his 85. It fit him perfect and did not have scary power he learned how to make it go fast and loves it. Three years ago we were one of the only 125,s out there in the 250C class.
    Today most of the up and comming fast riders 13/14 year olds are all riding 125.s. Most of the tracks are now offering 125 two stroke only Class and are fielding 20 or more riders. Lots of new Yamahas and KTM's and even a few huskys and the huskys are kickin butt.
    Most of the tracks now run AMA amature rules 250 T against 250 F and they have been pretty even. And also have let open two strokes run against 450 four strokes last year I saw a guy on a 1979 or 80 yz465 and get the hole shot. Any way I've rambled on enough but the 125/250/open works best in my opinion!

That is a very promising post! Thanks!

[Super Trucker]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

  That,s what the ama has to do. Or a new organization has to start it. My local track Denmark that I was a member at since 1990 closed in 2012. It had  over 700 racers in the peak mx years, 95-01  with a natural amplytheater for the best spectature viewing around. Denmark is just out side of Green Bay, next to a interstate, great location. The track ran out of money, with only 200 racers, 02-2011. The track opened in 1969, I still can,t believe it,s gone.

[chump6784]

What would be wrong with going back to the original rules, 125, 250 and open class? The only displacement advantage would be in the open class and they're so powerful it doesn't matter, and the 125 class would be all 2 stroke 

exactly, no reason they shouldn't do that, and screw the other mfg who dont have 125's or 250 2 strokes anymore, the guys who would run the 250 2 strokes would most likely be privateers and smaller teams anyway so it shouldn't matter. And with the rockstar yamaha team, since they have so many riders, i'm sure at least one of them would ride a 250 2 stroke.

We have equal cc here in oz and the scenerio you described is 100% correct. The only people running 2 strokes are privateers. Anyone with any sort of manufacturer backing is running a 4 stroke. The 4 strokes are still winning because the best riders are riding them but by having cc vs cc it gives the privateer an option

In saying that i dont think anyone in the pro lites class was running a two stroke. The only place i can recall seeing two strokes raced at the aussie titles was in the under 19's class. There they cleaned up

[TMKIWI]

The only place i can recall seeing two strokes raced at the aussie titles was in the under 19's class. There they cleaned up

And he wasn't even an Aussie.

[ford832]

Never happen,with all the $$ the manufacturers have in 4t's right now.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

I hate to be the lone voice, but as much as it hurts me to say it - I disagree.

MX was in a decline long before the switch to 4$. Long gone were the days of 50k fans standing in the mud or dust. Gates were drying up faster than a desert wash. Anybody who was anybody was leaving the 500's behind and riding 250's.

There was a lot to share the blame; the economic model used to pay racers, reed induction and power valves, the explosion of other "extreme" sports, and the AMA/Honda Conspiracy, etc.

The point is, we shouldn't be living in the past (except us Vintage Riders) and thinking to the future. What makes sense to organize the sport into classes and divisions? The cylinder capacity obviously isn't correct.

In today's "greener" society, I propose an emissions based class system. Each moto would be limited to a fixed amount and type of fuel with a fixed carbon output. Faster classes would have more fuel and output. Truth is, it wouldn't change anything really. You'd still have the premier guys on 450 4$ or 300 2T and lap times would be unchanged, but the focus would be on something more relevant to the sheeple than the volume of yer jugs.