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Offline factoryX

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167lb CR125
« on: October 11, 2012, 12:16:16 AM »


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 12:17:12 AM »

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 12:18:05 AM »
Its semi readable if you click on the image for a slight zoom in. Just be thankful I found it ha.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 02:08:39 AM »
Alright, here is a rough copy ha

        For years it was just a dream bike. There was no reason for it to exist; it would have been illegal. Terry Good, The man behind ?On The Line Racing,? had been harboring thoughts of building an ultra-light motocross bike since the early ?70s when the Suzuki?s of Joel Robert and Roger DeCoster had come to the U.S. and made winning look easy. ?I remember watching those old Suzuki?s and wanting to have something like that bad,? Terry says today. ?They looked light.?
   However, lightweight motorcycles were basically banned in ?73. The FIM came up with minimum weight rules that caused Suzuki to add weight to its race bikes. Years later, Terry would become involved with his own race team in the U.S. and he was required to run under similar rules.  The Lightweight dream bike couldn?t be built, at least not AMA Sanctioned racing. He still had those illegal thoughts, though. His small company, which imported Technosel seat covers dabbled in trying to sell titanium parts for a little while, but the prices were high and the demand was low. 
   Years Passed and eventually Terry got out of racing. The thought returned. Sure, the super-light racer might be illegal for racing, but didn?t race any more.  There was no reason not to build it. So Terry set about searching for parts. He started with what was basically the lightest motocross made. The Honda CR125R weighs 206 when it rolls off the showroom floor.  That?s not very light, but at least it was a start. It would have to lose quite a few pounds before it was even as light as Honda claimed it was.
   This isn?t a bike that just anyone could build. Terry had developed connections through his years of involvement with super cross. The idea of building the Super-light had been in the back of his head so long that he had almost unconsciously been collecting parts for years--parts that aren?t available to just anyone. The parts HRC made were light and good, but of course they weren?t to light. Below minimum weights might mean disqualifications. Still, there were some items that were perfect for the on the line super light. For example, Terry found a works HRC right side up fork. Try buying these at the local Honda dealer with your visa card. There are people today who still claim that conventional forks provide better action than modern forks. That was all fine and good but Terry used the fork because it was 4.75 pounds lighter than stock. Other HRC parts were the front wheel (3.5lbs less than stock), the rear shock(Minus 4.75lbs) and the master cylinders(minus 1.0 pound). The HRC parts were responsible for 16 pounds of weight loss. Basically, they got the bike from production weight to just below legal racing weight. If a person without HRC connections were to replace the same parts with say, Ohlins suspension, Talon hubs, Excel rims and the sort, he might be able to knock a very expensive seven to ten pounds from the weight of the machine.
   More weight had to come off. The people at 911 MX shop are into titanium parts. Virtually every steel nut and bolt on the bike came off and was replaced with titanium. It was expensive. Retail cost would work out to about $4000. It was productive, though. The nuts and bolts accounted for 4.0 pounds, and between the two titanium axles, the bike lost another pound. More titanium: 911 MX shop made a handlebar and triple-clamp that were 1.5 pounds lighter than stock.
   Where do you go from there? Terry got MMF to make a special sub frame that was 2.0 pounds lighter than stock, and Don Emler himself from FMF made a special 22-gauge pipe with 47 different cones(minus 1.75 pounds). The four inch long FMF silencer was loud, but got rid of half a pound. A Braking rear rotor and an HRC front rotor eliminated another 1.25 pounds.
   Now it was getting tough and very, very expensive.  The only thing left to explore was carbon fiber. A company called ?Air Tech,? which does stuff for HRC road racers team, had a lot of experience with the material, And would sell it to anyone brave enough to ask for the price.  You would thing that the plastic parts like the fuel tank and fenders would already be so light that carbon fiber wouldn?t make much difference there, Wrong! The tank, fenders, air box, number plates, and even the seat base all were replaced with carbon fiber stuff and the weight savings was 8.75 pounds. After working like a madman to shave off a half pound here, and a half pound there, the plastic-to-carbon fiber conversion was a gold mine of weight savings.
   So now the bike weighs 167 pounds. There were other changes that didn?t affect weight, like an HRC top end and Enzo shock, but basically the bike was done.  What better person to take the bike for it first test ride than Roger DeCoster, the man who inspired the bike 23 years ago? The On-The-Line Superlight actually was far lighter than the works bikes that Roger rode in the ?70s. It should be, Terry?s bike used many more exotic materials. ?Suzuki was accused of making the bikes light by spending money on titanium, but it wasn?t really true,? says Roger. ?Yes, the bike had some titanium, but not nearly as much as BSA was using. Suzuki engineers made the bike light by using their heads. For example, instead of using nuts to hold on the shocks, they used circlips. What could be lighter??
   The 370 that Roger raced in the GP?s of ?72 weighed about 196 pounds, while Joel Roberts?s 250 was 185 pounds. At the time a stock CZ was 233lbs. The CZ 250 that Roger raced in ?69 weighed 225 pounds due to some easy modifications. ?The CZs could have been lighter if they had just tried. For instance, the CZ hub was a very nice magnesium parts, but it used steel spacers and steel sprockets. They didn?t use very much aluminum at all.? Eventually, political maneuvering by other teams forced a minimum weight rule to be passed. The ruling came so close to the beginning of the season that Suzuki had to comply by pouring lead into the frames, some exotic material!  The bike handled poorly as a result, and the magic ultra-lightweight Suzuki?s became a thing of the past.
   Consider what time and technology have done since then. Roger?s RN Suzuki weighed 196 pounds and produced 35hp. The OTL weighs 167 pounds and produces probably 35hp. In fact, if you want to compare power to weight ratios, the OTL bike by itself(without rider) is much better than a CR250R.If you have riders weighing 140 pounds apiece on the bikes then they are about even. The OTL 125  would be able to get its share of hole shots against anything.
   ?Lightweight bikes do everything better,? says Roger. ?They accelerate better, stop quicker, turn easier and are more forgiving of mistakes. On some tracks with sharp ripples, sprung weight can actually make suspension work better, but those conditions are rare. Light bikes even get better traction, because it takes less bite to hook up, and you can run lower tire pressure without worrying about flats.?
   All of this held true of the OTL bike when it came time to ride it. It truly felt like a 167 pound racer. Riding it was almost incidental to building it, though. The bike was an experiment--it was built to prove a point. Once built, it had no real purpose--it was a racer that couldn?t be raced, at least not professionally. Roger?s ride on the bike was brief, a few quick laps around Red Bud, it was a very muddy track, so the bike almost immediately accumulated 20 pounds or so of sticky mud. Life is like that sometimes. Did all of the lightweight parts do what they were supposed to? For the most part, yes. The fenders cracked with weight of the mud, and by the end of the day the rear broke off completely. With a slightly different shape they should be able to be made much stronger without adding additional weight. Roger was more concerned that the carbon fiber parts had jagged edges when they broke, and that might be dangerous in a race--if it could be raced.
   Regardless, the OTL Superlight is a beautiful machine. It is one of a kind right now, and it will probably be one of a kind forever. That?s actually fine with us. We are satisfied just knowing that such a bike can be built.


That sucked lmfao.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline Super Trucker

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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 05:46:41 PM »
I still have that dirtbike issue too,haha. That is crazy 167 lbs. would love to ride that bike. There used to be alot of trick bikes, going to a race your thinking all I have to do is win everything today and I,ll get one of those trick bikes and a awesome box van and a big contract 26,000.00  and  5,000.00 bonuses for national wins. ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 09:47:50 PM »
Yeah, that would have been badass. To bad the bike is only 3 years younger than I am.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline newmann

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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 06:45:10 PM »
Other than a different wheelset and a trick pair of inverted works forks, that bike is still as it was back then. I almost got in in as part of a trade a while back but opted for a Factory Mugen 360 instead. While extremely cool, it was a little impractical as I would be wanting to ride the damn thing and probably crack some irreplaceable piece of carbon. :D



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline twosmoke595

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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 07:52:27 PM »
OH MY GOD NEWMAN!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o
thanks for those pics!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline _X_

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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 09:45:52 PM »
newmann, your chain fell off.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 07:27:44 AM »
Droool..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 12:34:41 PM »
Just some perspective of the gargantuan effort by OTL and what we lost with the implementation of the FIM weight rules:

Profab and others used to make Titanium bikes in the early '70's. This link is to a 168 lb 250 Husky. It is a mag motor so the engine is '74+ but it is in the pre-'75 frame configuration.

http://www.vintagehusky.com/images/restorations/resto4.htm

Here is a '74 400...It doesn't post the weight but I bet it is in the range.

http://vintagemxracer.com/titanium400husky.html

A '71 400, 189 lbs.

http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/asp/classics/bike.asp?id=109

At the '73 USGP, Brad Lackey's Kawasaki had a 490cc engine and weighed 197lbs. It had a steel (Husqvarna) tank, and the even left the iconic crome area and just put a Kawasaki decal on it. Pretty impressive effor at the time.

Nils Nilsson's '73 USGP Husky was titanium filled...

Most trials bike weigh in a lot less than that. Modern bikes are in the 140lbs range now! My Beta ('96) comes in stock at 180 lbs and there is weight to shave.

If you are a Motocrosser, and don't plan on racing Pro, let Roger's words be a lesson to you. LOSE WEIGHT!

:D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline dogger315

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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 08:46:00 PM »
Quote
If you are a Motocrosser, and don't plan on racing Pro, let Roger's words be a lesson to you. LOSE WEIGHT!
Very true statement.  Unfortunately, it can get expensive in a hurry.  There are a lot of weight savings opportunities on a
modern MXer, but most of them come from swapping existing material for something lighter (and more expensive).  I can
knock off around ten pounds from a bike by putting it on a Titanium diet - cost averages $600 a pound.  Carbon fiber is not
all that practical for MX, high cost and fragile in comparison to plastic.  There is also the danger of chasing weight over
reliability and even safety.  A good example of this is swapping in Titanium fork springs.  The springs will save you just over
a pound and last about two motos before they are worn to their fatigue limit.

Another thing to consider is we are comparing apples to oranges with some of this.  Joel and Roger's Suzukis were air cooled,
conventional forked and dual shocked.  My stock production 73 CR250M is substantially lighter than any of the water cooled
Hondas with linkage suspension and upside down forks.  The point is, if you water cooled those bikes, added 14" travel forks
and linkage shocks then reinforced those spindly frames to handle the added stress and loads, I doubt they would come in
under 200 lbs even with all the exotic material.

dogger
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Super Trucker

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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2012, 06:36:13 PM »
Newman that,s very cool, that you have that cr. Refresh my memmory on the trick Mugen cylinder, where they where sold, where they sold to anyone or pro card riders only, cost, perforformance increase, hp max, last year manufactured.   There,s a 98 cr125 with a Mugen motor on youtube, the riders was 1993 Swiss national champ, sounds awesome mid to top motor.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline newmann

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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 01:12:16 AM »
Not my bike. Belongs to a friend that I traded some bikes with. It was tempting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Jeram

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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 01:42:12 AM »
Quote
If you are a Motocrosser, and don't plan on racing Pro, let Roger's words be a lesson to you. LOSE WEIGHT!
Very true statement.  Unfortunately, it can get expensive in a hurry.  There are a lot of weight savings opportunities on a
modern MXer, but most of them come from swapping existing material for something lighter (and more expensive).  I can
knock off around ten pounds from a bike by putting it on a Titanium diet - cost averages $600 a pound.  Carbon fiber is not
all that practical for MX, high cost and fragile in comparison to plastic.  There is also the danger of chasing weight over
reliability and even safety.  A good example of this is swapping in Titanium fork springs.  The springs will save you just over
a pound and last about two motos before they are worn to their fatigue limit.

Another thing to consider is we are comparing apples to oranges with some of this.  Joel and Roger's Suzukis were air cooled,
conventional forked and dual shocked.  My stock production 73 CR250M is substantially lighter than any of the water cooled
Hondas with linkage suspension and upside down forks.  The point is, if you water cooled those bikes, added 14" travel forks
and linkage shocks then reinforced those spindly frames to handle the added stress and loads, I doubt they would come in
under 200 lbs even with all the exotic material.

dogger

Its a great bike, but a bit wastefull for your average amature racer who weighs any more than 70 odd kgs.

I think its alot cheaper and better for an amature riders fitness to loose as many pounds as possible off the rider!
no point being a porker who rides a 167lb bike!

why spend thousands on loosing 20lbs of a bike when most amature riders could stand to loose 20lbs off themselfs.

I realised this earlier this year, and dropped 20lbs without any effort by drastically changing what I eat
(not how much)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »