2010 2 stroke predictions coming true

[JETZcorp]

I have a friend who's considering getting a 250SX, though he wants an '80s Husky more.  The main advantage is financing, apparently, even though the KTM is more than twice as expensive.  If he does decide to get the KTM over the Husky, though, it sounds like they might not even have one for him.  Crazy.

[JohnN]

You know, I think that California is very into the latest thing, although, the joke may soon be on them, they may be running outdated equipment soon:) And also, a question, why are so many magazines based out of California? It get's kind of annoying, the same tracks they talk about, and, to me, i would not have my magazine based in California, I would have it somewhere where real dirt actually exists in great amounts, like Montana, or Canada, I don't know, just an opinion.

The big reasons that all the magazines are located in California are;

Close to all of the Big 4 US Distributors.

Most of the accessory manufacturers are located there.

Good weather year round.

It's know as the motocross capital of the world.

While these can be useful, they are not the be all and end all... I agree that the dirt out there is not quite the same as in other parts of our country... many areas of the country have actual dirt!! lol

The issues are that it's more difficult to get bikes to test and no one really thinks that a magazine could do well here. Although the one exception is Racer X, but they have chosen to report more on the lifestyle than on the machines of motocross.

A few of you have also brought up a very good point, man of the dealers have been selling out of the two-strokes... just keep on asking your local dealers for bikes... they will pass this information onto the distributor, who will in turn (hopefully) pass it on to the manufacturers...

That is the path to a two-stroke future!

[wexy21]

I grew up in IL, started riding at 8, raced in central IL on two strokes.  I've had both and love both (2-4 t's).  I have also lived in SC and rode there as well.  Now I live in CA and have to say that I miss riding in the black topsoil of IL!  Although I get to ride a ton more and in more places, riding in the dirt is easier, more forgiving, and more fun then in sand and rocks.  I always dreamed of riding out here in the dunes and got jealouse when I would see those videos and here that people could actually go into Chapparal vs ordering from their catalog! lol. 
  Saying all of that, I have to defend Cali a lil.  I'm in SoCal and so I haven't been able to make a trip to northern, or even central to ride yet.  They have it all here!  If you want dirt, then go north.  If you want hills and rough terrain, go anywhere.  If you want sand and great GP racing, then stay south.  It's just a matter of driving to what you want to ride.  I miss home because my type of riding was in my back yard.  My backyard here is desert and it's not as fun.  It's harder for me because falling in the dirt or grass is nothing, but dumping it on rock filled desert terrain is kinda harsh (yeah I'm older and worry about that now).  It's also harder to pull some good long wheelies when you have to dodge rocks and ride into sand patches.  Still though, Cali has it all, you just gotta drive for what you want!  you can even ride in the snow almost all year:) 
  Now for my thoughts on the 2t thing....I love them, have both, want both, and just love all motorcycles period.  I'm not against any bike, ever!  I have a Buell (guys either love or hate them), have a CRF450 (same thng), and a CR125.  I like them all for certain reasons.  You see more CRF's here then anywhere else because of the desert, that's a fact.  They seem like they were built for it out here in the desert.  I feel out of place on a GP track on my 2t.  But I also feel out of place on a motox track on my 450.  I hope to god that I can get the chance to buy a new CR 250 one day and go to a race and only hear a 2t start!  It's that buzzing in your ears long after the races are over that kept me wanting more as a kid and teen.  I miss that sound and know all of you do too!
  I just thnk it's kinda silly to hate a bike for what it is.  I get that a lot from harley guys when I go into their bike shop to get parts of help.  I also get it a lil on other boards that cater towards rice rockets saying that my bike can't go 160+.  Who F'n cares about one bike being a roach and another being hot!??  people ride what they like because, well, they like it right?  I wouldn't pull up next to a guy who was riding a beat up 1975 whatever it is and laugh while I pulled a wheely on him.  Same for the dirt....I woulnd't give a guy a hard time if he took a 1982 RM 250 off of his truck and asked if he could ride with me against my 125 or 450.  I seen a nice a@@ 02 CR 250 at the gas station before Ocotillo Wells yesterday and we commented on each others bikes!  It was cool to see it since they are so rare here. 
  This site is great because most of the racers and younger riders have only ridden 4t's and don't really know what they are missing.  They come into here after riding a 2t finally and want to learn more and then they are hooked.  It's a great starting place.  If I were to race again, I'd be on a 250.  My 450 is too tiring for me on a track.  But I'd also keep it for desert racing for sure!  You just can't compare when you are out going 60+ over endless woops the wind made in the sand.  But back to what I originally said...it's not the bikes fault. You can't hate a 4t....or a 2t.  Look back through time, we are just in a transition.  it will change and when it finally does.....all the tables will be turned.
   to be continued......

[miedosoracing]

Sand = CR500AF. 

[JohnN]

Wexy21 - I hear you... hopefully I have not coma across as hating the four-strokes, because that is not true. They are fine machines and have many uses.

My beef comes from the fact that the manufacturers and AMA have created lopsided rules which have all but eliminated two-strokes from Pro racing.

Not for nothing but giving any type of machine and almost double displacement advantage and then calling it fair, well that just rubs me the wrong way. If these bikes are so great, why can't they race using equal displacement??

As for California, I was not ragging on them so much as stating why so many magazines are based there. For all the reasons that you stated, California is great for motocross.

[JETZcorp]

If we got equal displacement, I think I would like four-strokes a lot more than I do now.  Like at Woodland, for example, there was the guy racing a big four-stroke against 440 Maicos and such.  He put himself at SUCH a disadvantage with all that weight and crap, you just had to feel for him.  All eyes were on that guy, because they knew that if HE could win on THAT hog, everyone would know that they his skill was an epic thing to behold.  As John said, a lot of the hostility for four-strokes comes from the fact that they represent "the man" and are allowed to cheat on a daily basis.  Everyone wants to root for the underdog, whether the underdog belongs in that position or not.

So yeah, I'd certainly have more respect for four-strokes if they would just stop cheating.

[2smoker]

I have a friend who's considering getting a 250SX, though he wants an '80s Husky more.  The main advantage is financing, apparently, even though the KTM is more than twice as expensive.  If he does decide to get the KTM over the Husky, though, it sounds like they might not even have one for him.  Crazy.

LOL... it is a no brainer! He is helping the 2 stroke cause and will have some resale value and won't look like a trailer park goon rider 

[eprovenzano]

I have a friend who's considering getting a 250SX, though he wants an '80s Husky more.  The main advantage is financing, apparently, even though the KTM is more than twice as expensive.  If he does decide to get the KTM over the Husky, though, it sounds like they might not even have one for him.  Crazy.

The 250SX is a very popular machine.  It come standard with many of the aftermarket goodies that most of us would purchase in the near future, (none of us leave our bikes stock).  If his local dealer does not have one in stock, they may be able to locate one for him, or he can search other dealers and have it shipped to him.

[JETZcorp]

I have a friend who's considering getting a 250SX, though he wants an '80s Husky more.  The main advantage is financing, apparently, even though the KTM is more than twice as expensive.  If he does decide to get the KTM over the Husky, though, it sounds like they might not even have one for him.  Crazy.

LOL... it is a no brainer! He is helping the 2 stroke cause and will have some resale value and won't look like a trailer park goon rider 

I never get the resale-value thing.  It's like people think that you'll lose money if you buy vintage more than buying something new.  The prices of late '70s - early '80s bikes are actually rising.  My dad got his 490 maybe six years ago for $2500, but I guarantee you it's worth three times that today.  At the same time, if you buy a brand new showroom bike, park it in your garage without even turning over the motor, you'll lose a large percentage of its value just because it's not "new" in the chronological sense.  And worse, when it comes to be ten years down the line, or twenty, the new bike will surely be almost worthless, just as late '80s bikes are now.

And as far as looking like a "trailer park goon rider" goes, the cure for that is simple.  It's called sixth gear.  Passing people (safely) at eighty-five does a lot to eliminate the "Model-T" image people have of old bikes.  Besides, like I said, the '80s Husky is $3000 cheaper.

[jerret125]

last weekend was a pamx race at high point there was about 20 or so 2 strokes racing not including the 80's or smaller bikes. the fastest kid out there was on a kx250 and just tore up. he also was sponsored by cernics. many more on yz 125's and 250's some fast some in the middle plus some vet guys on some late 90,s yz's i was very cool. the 80 class was very cool there was 1 kid that was absolutly hauling wide open.

[JETZcorp]

It's amazing what can be done with those little chainsaw motors.

Logan Karnow wins first moto of Sr. Mini at OIR

[wexy21]

Wexy21 - I hear you... hopefully I have not coma across as hating the four-strokes, because that is not true. They are fine machines and have many uses.

My beef comes from the fact that the manufacturers and AMA have created lopsided rules which have all but eliminated two-strokes from Pro racing.

Not for nothing but giving any type of machine and almost double displacement advantage and then calling it fair, well that just rubs me the wrong way. If these bikes are so great, why can't they race using equal displacement??

As for California, I was not ragging on them so much as stating why so many magazines are based there. For all the reasons that you stated, California is great for motocross.

No, not at all...I like this thread, and you're right about the AMA.  I took a break from moto-x and didn't know anything about what they are trying to do until last year.  It's crazy that someone can make obsurd rules.  But you can't put a 125 two stroke against a 125 four stroke.  It would be more unfair that way vs the way it is now.  A 250 two stroke can hang and beat out 450's, it really just comes down to the rider and he handles the bike.  Comparing the two is no different then comparing a....well normally I'd say a two stroke vs a four stroke!  LOL....you just can't.  that is how different they are.  If you think about it this way....a 450 would be more equal to a 250 because it fires every other stroke, so it would need the extra displacement because the smaller bike is already at the advantage.  I see it as the 450's are at the disadvantage because of this.  they are the ones who need to keep up.  they are also heavier.  So war two-stokes!

  Saying all that.....I never had a grin on my face as big as I did the first time I rode a 450!  I went from racing 125's and riding a few 250's to taking a long break, to jumping on a 450.  So yeah, it was crazy powerfull to me.  I still can't believe how much power they produce, and at such low rpm's. 

[JETZcorp]

Sounds a lot like my first time on an open two-stroke.  I was just going to cruise along this gravel road, so I gave it a little gas to lug up a hill, expecting the thing to sort of growl and claw its way up.  Until that point, it was behaving just like my 250 so I thought it would do the same on the hill with the 390.  That's not what happened!  It was like surfing on this big wave of torque, the bike just lunged forward in this great unexpected leap.  Just out of nowhere, right from idle, whoosh.  I just started screaming, "holy shit, holy shit, holy shit!"  I didn't nail the throttle or anything, I just rolled it on a little tiny bit to putter up this hill, and the thing takes off like a jet.  That was the exact moment that I started really really wanting a 440.  I don't know how much low-end a 450F could possibly have, but I know that the 390 could burn a roost, raise the front end toward Jupiter, and blast off into the sunset right off idle.  No need to "find the powerband" here, boy.

[JohnN]

 But you can't put a 125 two stroke against a 125 four stroke.  It would be more unfair that way vs the way it is now.  A 250 two stroke can hang and beat out 450's, it really just comes down to the rider and he handles the bike.  Comparing the two is no different then comparing a....well normally I'd say a two stroke vs a four stroke!  LOL....you just can't.  that is how different they are.  If you think about it this way....a 450 would be more equal to a 250 because it fires every other stroke, so it would need the extra displacement because the smaller bike is already at the advantage.  I see it as the 450's are at the disadvantage because of this.  they are the ones who need to keep up.  they are also heavier.  So war two-stokes!

  Saying all that.....I never had a grin on my face as big as I did the first time I rode a 450!  I went from racing 125's and riding a few 250's to taking a long break, to jumping on a 450.  So yeah, it was crazy powerfull to me.  I still can't believe how much power they produce, and at such low rpm's. 

I agree that you can not put a 125 two-stroke against the 125 four-stroke, it would be a slaughter not a race. But at the same time the current rules are not correct either.... so what to do....

The truth is that there would be no competitive four-strokes without the absurd ruling allowing double displacement. So there is a great deal to answer for.

Just so you know the formula you stated is not quite correct, it's not just that they fire every other stroke, which is why they need to be double displacement, it's a bit more complicated than that. Although that is probably what they used to create the rule in the first place.

You are correct there are some simple changes that could be done to make racing fair. They could start with a sound rule that really does something, instead of the joke of a rule they currently have. Right now they test the bikes at a low idle, which the pipe companies know how to work around. The pipes will be at the correct level for testing, but at wide open throttle they are over 30db louder than the rule!!

Just a quick aside, a 6db increase in sound level DOUBLES how loud a sound is!!

If the AMA/FIM instituted a rule that actually lowered sound levels all the way to wide open throttle, it would open the door for two-strokes to compete in a more equal way with the current absurd displacement rules.

Another rule that the AMA/FIM instituted to give the four-strokes an advantage is Unleaded fuel. This was truly the nail in the coffin for the two-stroke. Even after the displacement advantage the two-strokes were still competitive and beating the four-strokes. With Unleaded fuel, the two-stroke can not run as high a compression that they had in the past... thus lowering the power...

Of course they also have a rule called homologation, which basically keeps any of the smaller manufacturers from being able to compete. Keeping the Pro Series as the exclusive playground for the Big 4 manufacturers. The funny thing is that this year the Big 4 are having trouble because there are still lot's of '08 and '09 model four-strokes in their warehouses, so they are not building as many. So someplace along the line they lowered the number of machines for this rule, but you can not find this information any where!!

At every turn they have made it more difficult for the two-stroke to compete...

[Paul P]

Octane rating is what determines how high you can run your compression. Most of the 2 stroke motors I've built came through with compression that will run great on 93 octane. But this new pump gas is no good. Pro riders are forced to use the special gas, but amatuers can run whatever.
    If you think magazine test bikes are stock off the showroom floor, you're dreaming. I've talked to enough of the testers to know otherwise. If you think one of the big 4 is going to let a bike get tested without a crew of technicians tagging along, you've been very misled.
  The reason a lot of posts are referriing to the 81 and up Maico's can be directed right to a photo on this site with photos of the new Honda and 81 Maico laid over each other showing the similarities between the two. If the bike is that outdated why does the 'new' Honda share so much of the frame/chassis dimensions?
  Dissing the new Maico's because the fenders are 'Outdated' is the same ignorant thinking that got this whole 4 stroke steamroller going in the first place. There are only three things that should be considered when buying a new bike; engine performance(meaning ridability, not peak power), handling, and durability. Being close to the dealer is not a reason, nor is if RC is riding one. I have an aluminum framed CR250 2stroke and have not had to worry about durability, it doesn't handle as well as my 81 Maico but it's not bad, and the low to mid power is great for a 250.
    Equal displacement and get rid of that foolish homo. rule.