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Author Topic: Two stroke piston showdown.  (Read 15126 times)

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Offline Stusmoke

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« on: August 13, 2012, 08:54:26 AM »
Ok, so I'm going to be putting a new top end in my 125 as soon as I can get a micrometre to measure my cylinder bore (its been resleved but I'm unsure what to).

Heres the question that could start a war: Whats the best piston?
At this time I'm going with Wossner. From what I can see they're great stuff, extra long life, less noise and increased horsepower so they claim, but I don't really care about the noise part. But has anyone had any super bad experiences with them or heard of said bad experiences? Also, whats the feedback for Mitaka pistons?

I'm hoping to buy my stuff in from NZ (motocrossparts.co.nz) and can get a full wossner piston kit for around $110 AUD plus postage and around $30 for the top end gaskets.

But whats the best way to go for a piston to go in a 2001 Honda CR125? Thanks in advance.

Stu
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline factoryX

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 10:05:36 AM »
Wiseco..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline TM DEAN

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 11:02:34 AM »

Wossner for me
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline dbf498

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 12:13:29 PM »
Used Wiseco for years. Gotta' good deal on a Vertex. We'll see how it plays out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline 2T Institute

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2012, 12:54:44 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline cnrcpla

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 04:06:15 PM »
I like wiseco... I haven't tried the other two brands mentioned though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline arnego2

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 03:24:23 PM »
Woessner is great, they come in different sizes too :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline Stusmoke

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 09:27:09 AM »
Quote from: arnego2 on August 14, 2012, 10:24:23 PM
Woessner is great, they come in different sizes too :)
First of all thanks for all the feedback guys.

Thats my main reason for going with them I just neglected to mention that earlier, sorry. I have no idea whats been happening inside this engine but the vertex thats in there has absolutely no compression whatsoever. I can just about sneeze on the kickstarter and it'll turn over its extremely weak. It felt good to start with when I test rode it but I later discovered that the genius was just running unmixed gas in it  :o so I'd guess that it just wore down REALLY fast. Anyway the vertex thats in there has a piston to bore clearance that can easily be seen with little more than a sharp eye. While I'm on the topic, what is acceptable piston-bore clearance and what is the ideal clearance? I've ordered my micrometre should be here early next week.

Thanks guys
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline TotalNZ

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 10:03:51 AM »
A mic won't be much good to you by itself, you need a dial bore gauge to check the bore size then a micrometer or verniers to check the piston size. You can check your ring end gap with feeler gauges to check for wear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline Stusmoke

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2012, 01:04:57 PM »
Quote from: TotalNZ on August 15, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
A mic won't be much good to you by itself, you need a dial bore gauge to check the bore size then a micrometer or verniers to check the piston size. You can check your ring end gap with feeler gauges to check for wear.

I've already got the dial bore gauge I was just hoping to buy the micrometre here in town but for some bizzare reason I couldn't find one anywhere. I should have some feeler gauges lying around in the shed somewhere. The only vertex piston that was readily available from shops seemed to be a bore of 53.93...? Something close to that. I'm dreadfully confused actually cos plate just under the stator cover claims its 54.5 but pistons like wiseco, vertex, pro x all seem to be much closer to the 54 mil mark. I don't know whats going down there. It could actually be on the stator cover itself I can't remember if it is maybe that stator cover is from a different year or something. Well regardless I'll have my micrometre by early next week and I can go from there.

Thanks
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline maicoman009

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2012, 01:58:48 PM »
 When it's time for a new piston for my ktm-300 it will be a Wossner or Athena.More than likely a Wossner though..... :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline dbf498

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2012, 11:37:56 PM »
I'm assuming you're familiar with each manufacturer having an A, B and sometimes C bore cylinders; each slightly larger than the letter before it, i.e. B is larger than A and C larger than B. So having you're own bore gage and measuring the bore will help answer some of the questions you have. A little digging on the web came up with this. According to Vertex's website, http://www.na.vertexpistons.com/ProductInfo.aspx?item_id=276, the diameter should be right for a 54 mm bore. I looked at Wiseco's website, http://www.wiseco.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ItemID=PK1261&ModelID=121&ModelYear=2001&AppID=16286, the 54.5mm you're referring to I'd wager is the stroke not bore and that the stock bore is 54.0mm. Be that as it may, until you really now what the bore diameter is I'm merely speculating on what the bore really is.

 
Quote from: Stusmoke on August 16, 2012, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: TotalNZ on August 15, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
A mic won't be much good to you by itself, you need a dial bore gauge to check the bore size then a micrometer or verniers to check the piston size. You can check your ring end gap with feeler gauges to check for wear.

I've already got the dial bore gauge I was just hoping to buy the micrometre here in town but for some bizzare reason I couldn't find one anywhere. I should have some feeler gauges lying around in the shed somewhere. The only vertex piston that was readily available from shops seemed to be a bore of 53.93...? Something close to that. I'm dreadfully confused actually cos plate just under the stator cover claims its 54.5 but pistons like wiseco, vertex, pro x all seem to be much closer to the 54 mil mark. I don't know whats going down there. It could actually be on the stator cover itself I can't remember if it is maybe that stator cover is from a different year or something. Well regardless I'll have my micrometre by early next week and I can go from there.

Thanks
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline Stusmoke

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2012, 08:18:56 AM »
Quote from: dbf498 on August 18, 2012, 06:37:56 AM
I'm assuming you're familiar with each manufacturer having an A, B and sometimes C bore cylinders; each slightly larger than the letter before it, i.e. B is larger than A and C larger than B. So having you're own bore gage and measuring the bore will help answer some of the questions you have. A little digging on the web came up with this. According to Vertex's website, http://www.na.vertexpistons.com/ProductInfo.aspx?item_id=276, the diameter should be right for a 54 mm bore. I looked at Wiseco's website, http://www.wiseco.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ItemID=PK1261&ModelID=121&ModelYear=2001&AppID=16286, the 54.5mm you're referring to I'd wager is the stroke not bore and that the stock bore is 54.0mm. Be that as it may, until you really now what the bore diameter is I'm merely speculating on what the bore really is.

 
Quote from: Stusmoke on August 16, 2012, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: TotalNZ on August 15, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
A mic won't be much good to you by itself, you need a dial bore gauge to check the bore size then a micrometer or verniers to check the piston size. You can check your ring end gap with feeler gauges to check for wear.

I've already got the dial bore gauge I was just hoping to buy the micrometre here in town but for some bizzare reason I couldn't find one anywhere. I should have some feeler gauges lying around in the shed somewhere. The only vertex piston that was readily available from shops seemed to be a bore of 53.93...? Something close to that. I'm dreadfully confused actually cos plate just under the stator cover claims its 54.5 but pistons like wiseco, vertex, pro x all seem to be much closer to the 54 mil mark. I don't know whats going down there. It could actually be on the stator cover itself I can't remember if it is maybe that stator cover is from a different year or something. Well regardless I'll have my micrometre by early next week and I can go from there.

Thanks

Well I just checked my manual for it and it says its definitely a 54 mil bore. I basically answered every question I had except for which is the best. I can't believe I didn't think to look it up earlier, totally blanked on that :<img src=" title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley"> As I said its also been resleeved and I would say that its gonna be the 54 but I'd rather be certain. On a side note I stuck some feeler gauges between the cylinder and the piston and I got a .231 mm in there I think. It might've been bigger I can't remember. Anyways needless to say: This piston is rooted. No doubt thanks to the incredibly intelligent lad that was running unmixed gas.

Thanks

Stu
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline dbf498

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2012, 09:53:47 AM »
Well...I guess it depends on the availability now and in the future. All the pistons mentioned are all good quality and will provide you with years of service. I've used Wiseco for years with excellent results. I haven 't used a Vertex before and this is my first. My first impression with it so far is positive but I may go back to Wiseco not because of the quality of the piston but I can get a Wiseco for almost $20 (USD) cheaper than the Vertex.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline Stusmoke

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Two stroke piston showdown.
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2012, 08:52:07 AM »
Quote from: dbf498 on August 18, 2012, 04:53:47 PM
Well...I guess it depends on the availability now and in the future. All the pistons mentioned are all good quality and will provide you with years of service. I've used Wiseco for years with excellent results. I haven 't used a Vertex before and this is my first. My first impression with it so far is positive but I may go back to Wiseco not because of the quality of the piston but I can get a Wiseco for almost $20 (USD) cheaper than the Vertex.

Damn thats a good buy, Wiseco are usually more expensive aren't they? The bike is currently using a vertex. I wish I could say 'running' a vertex though  8)

Lame jokes that demean the human race aside, I've just finished assessing the cylinder bore and found it to be a neat 53.96 mil. It can get tedious measuring it out exactly though thats for sure. But I gotta say I enjoy being able to buy the equipment I need for a change :P So I've ordered in a B sized wossner piston (53.96) I may go to A size after this one is worn out, we'll see how we go.

Last question, whats a good break in procedure?

Thanks
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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