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Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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who rides what?
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2012, 11:24:37 AM »
See the signature below.   ;D  I would say I am fat, dumb and happy. BTW, none of these are museum pieces or runway queens. All are riders/racers in various states of (dis)repair.

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If I had deeper pockets I'd pick up the new 150SX when it comes out. Turn it into a four stroke eater.

They are fun, and in the right hands and on the right track, they can win but "four stroke eater" they are not. You are still giving up a lot to gain that "ear to ear" grin. If you just want to be different, buy a Husky, Beta, or Gas-Gas 250F, but if you want real fun, then by all means, you will not find a more fun motorcycle!

This weekend, I was out with one of the local hot shoes (he's a 4$ guy) and my buddy with a CR250. The 4$ guy first rode the CR. Came in with a glowing smile you could plainly see in his helmet all the way down the start straight! Now, this CR is peeerrrrrfffect. I challenge anyone to find a better example of the breed. Anyway, we rode some more and then I turned him loose on my KTM 144. He came back just giddy! He was shaking in his enjoyment. Did we convert him? Doubt it. he'll need the 250F to be competitive in the class. But does he know why we ride and swear by 2T's? OH, HELL YEAH!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline Stusmoke

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who rides what?
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2012, 08:12:51 AM »
See the signature below.   ;D  I would say I am fat, dumb and happy. BTW, none of these are museum pieces or runway queens. All are riders/racers in various states of (dis)repair.

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If I had deeper pockets I'd pick up the new 150SX when it comes out. Turn it into a four stroke eater.

They are fun, and in the right hands and on the right track, they can win but "four stroke eater" they are not. You are still giving up a lot to gain that "ear to ear" grin. If you just want to be different, buy a Husky, Beta, or Gas-Gas 250F, but if you want real fun, then by all means, you will not find a more fun motorcycle!

This weekend, I was out with one of the local hot shoes (he's a 4$ guy) and my buddy with a CR250. The 4$ guy first rode the CR. Came in with a glowing smile you could plainly see in his helmet all the way down the start straight! Now, this CR is peeerrrrrfffect. I challenge anyone to find a better example of the breed. Anyway, we rode some more and then I turned him loose on my KTM 144. He came back just giddy! He was shaking in his enjoyment. Did we convert him? Doubt it. he'll need the 250F to be competitive in the class. But does he know why we ride and swear by 2T's? OH, HELL YEAH!

I think one of the biggest things that divides the four jokes from the smokers is the riding style they require. As we all know railing the outside line is often the best way to go for a smoker. Not always but often. The smokers corner like a dream. 250Fs are alot more labored through the corners. Yamaha's 250F description says something along the lines of: "Ask any motocross rider where races are won and lost and odds on he'll tell you its all in the corners". This is very true. If you take a 150 SX, mod it out a little, squeeze a few more ponies out of it then DEPENDING ON THE TRACK it can be VERY competitive in the right hands. Now I'm not a racer, I'm the first to admit that. Speaking for my local track ONLY the smokers REMAIN competitive. I saw just last year a 250SX mash the four jokes something serious. The track hasn't changed since the rise of the four strokes in any major way so that was a big advantage.

What I meant by four stroke eater was more at a very basic and do-it-for-fun level of mx. Sorry for the poor wording
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2012, 10:03:54 AM »
The problem between a modded 125 (139, 144, 175) is that although they make more peak hp than a 250F, they do it only in one spot. Using the graph in MxA as an example (and this is from memory so don't expect the numbers to be exact...), at 7000, a 250F is like 30 hp, while the 144 is at 17 hp (about the peak of an early '70's 175). The 250F numbers climb very slowly from there to 14000 rpm and peak at 35 hp but all that way they are +30 hp. The 144 slowly climbs until about 10000 when BAM! 38hp! to 11000 and sayonara.

To me, all that is very over simplified but Jeremy McGrath or Ricky Carmichael couldn't keep that 144 in such a narrow power band forever. I would gladly give up the 3 hp to have that power in a wider range (in an equal machine). It would allow a lesser rider to compete just that much more evenly, and in the hands of the really fast...makes it no contest. Of course, between the 2 and 4 strokes, there are other differences that all favor the 2 stroke, thus narrowing the gap further; weight, turning ability, braking, "snap", all are important parts to the equation.

So, what am I saying here? I know it sounds like I am making a case for the 4$ but I am not. I am just laying out the facts while not fanning the flames and name calling. The modern 4$ is a technical marvel. In no other sport can you buy the equivalent of an F1 car (back of the grid of course!) off the show room floor. But with that comes a price and that price is more parts to wear out, a much narrower tolerance for failure, and a much higher price tag. We all know that cc for cc, the 2T is a better deal, but under current AMA or FIM Pro rules (you can run the 144 in the FIM 250F class - there is no difference between pro and amateur), you can't beat the 250F.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline Super Trucker

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« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2012, 07:04:39 PM »
It,s 167 not a 175, I don,t want a 2-st rider calling a shop saying I saw it on the internet so make me a 175.haha  It,s all rider  the slower classes like 250 c  you can win on a stock 125 with a pipe,that,s 8 years old. You can,t run a 144 in the 250 class at the nationals or supercross in America. I was at alot of nationals when they where on 125,s, saw MC on a 125 and RC in 97 his KX was one of the most peaky 125,s ever. Start to finish RC was riding like he wanted to kill the world. ;D  I rode the KTM 144 and 150, didn,t think it was hard to ride at all. My 04 cr125 with a stroker crank and 2mm ovr borre- didn,t  want the 2mm ovr borre for many reasons, but it,s done. When the 04 hits and starts pulling, over 20 ft lbs of torque is on the massive hit then builds to around 22-23 ft lbs of torque. A 125 with porting is faster thew the corners tho, because the crank and much heavy piston, you loose the quickness of a modded 125.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2012, 07:31:56 AM »
The problem between a modded 125 (139, 144, 175) is that although they make more peak hp than a 250F, they do it only in one spot. Using the graph in MxA as an example (and this is from memory so don't expect the numbers to be exact...), at 7000, a 250F is like 30 hp, while the 144 is at 17 hp (about the peak of an early '70's 175). The 250F numbers climb very slowly from there to 14000 rpm and peak at 35 hp but all that way they are +30 hp. The 144 slowly climbs until about 10000 when BAM! 38hp! to 11000 and sayonara.

To me, all that is very over simplified but Jeremy McGrath or Ricky Carmichael couldn't keep that 144 in such a narrow power band forever. I would gladly give up the 3 hp to have that power in a wider range (in an equal machine). It would allow a lesser rider to compete just that much more evenly, and in the hands of the really fast...makes it no contest. Of course, between the 2 and 4 strokes, there are other differences that all favor the 2 stroke, thus narrowing the gap further; weight, turning ability, braking, "snap", all are important parts to the equation.

So, what am I saying here? I know it sounds like I am making a case for the 4$ but I am not. I am just laying out the facts while not fanning the flames and name calling. The modern 4$ is a technical marvel. In no other sport can you buy the equivalent of an F1 car (back of the grid of course!) off the show room floor. But with that comes a price and that price is more parts to wear out, a much narrower tolerance for failure, and a much higher price tag. We all know that cc for cc, the 2T is a better deal, but under current AMA or FIM Pro rules (you can run the 144 in the FIM 250F class - there is no difference between pro and amateur), you can't beat the 250F.


I agree there. The easy (and gay) powerband allows the 250F to rocket ahead simply because it produces decent power over a wide range. As opposed to the 125 (or 144 whatever) That produces beastly power in what is sometimes a 2 grand range. Its not easy to keep it there, infact on some tracks its down right impossible. Before 250Fs came to town and before I go onto say this I'll point out that I'm just speculating. Anyway before 250Fs came to town a 125 was more of a scream it out. No bottom and no mid (although perhaps some models made advancements in those areas). But when the 250Fs started rolling in with their ability to pull far far ahead in the lower ranges, the 125 mxer needed to change to pull rider and machine much harder through these areas. I'll say again: I'm SPECULATING based on the 125 shootouts that I've read. But lets face it when it comes to the crunch, fun is fun  :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2012, 10:56:17 AM »
I believe if you put a KTM 200 cylinder on a KTM 150 (144-same thing, different name), you get a 174 point something. And I am not saying that the 144 is hard to ride. It is actually the MOST fun (although my '98 Yamaha with the 139 kit was probably even better). In most amateur classes, it would be competitive against 250F's and on a tight track, 250 2T's.

We run MX1 and MX2 together here. Currently in the regional championships, 3rd overall is a kid on a 144. Second is a past MX and National Enduro Champion on a 250F and 1st Overall is something like a 13 time Champion and a past National MX Champion on a 450F. He's currently 9th in the national championship. Kind of a nice podium mix.

2-strokes in the nationals? So far this season, only 1 has appeared in 3 rounds. A KTM 125 is currently 13th after 3 rounds (but he didn't appear in the last event).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline scotty dog

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« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2013, 02:37:04 AM »
I just read on another site that akid of only 16, in his first senior event at the South Australian MX titles, won the Pro lite class on a 150! They said he was the only one against a gate full of 250f's and 250 smokers, Maybe a future Champ here?? ;) ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
F**K THE WHALES......................SAVE THE 2 STROKE!!!!

The hardest part about riding a 4 stroke is telling your parents your Gay!!

05 CR 250

Offline scotty dog

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« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2012, 07:14:22 AM »
This is how she looked when I first picked her up:



This is how she sits currently:



Thinking of going back to a more OEM or early Team Honda type look.  Simple type graphics/decals.  But, I am not in any hurry, none of that will make me any faster!   ;D
Sweet bike mate, welcome aboard, great year, great brand :D :D ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
F**K THE WHALES......................SAVE THE 2 STROKE!!!!

The hardest part about riding a 4 stroke is telling your parents your Gay!!

05 CR 250

Offline kevin.sine

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« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2012, 12:55:27 PM »
Hello,my name is Kevin and I am a 2 stroke addict.I ride a 2004 Crf450-500 on the motocross track.and a 87 CR430 Husqvarna in the woods.

 

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline scotty dog

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« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2012, 11:02:13 PM »
Welcome aboard kevin.sine, nice bikes, love the 500af. Does then Husky have a Honda front end?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
F**K THE WHALES......................SAVE THE 2 STROKE!!!!

The hardest part about riding a 4 stroke is telling your parents your Gay!!

05 CR 250

Offline kevin.sine

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« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2012, 02:52:12 AM »
Welcome aboard kevin.sine, nice bikes, love the 500af. Does then Husky have a Honda front end?

Thanks Scotty,yes the Husky is all honda up front(98 cr500) I ride her almost every day  8)
You got a nice honda too bro.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline eprovenzano

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« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2012, 05:23:12 PM »
Current steed is a 2000 KTM 300exc, but I may look at a 2002 KTM 380 over the weekend..   ;D



Also just to show I'm not a 4 stroke hater,   I do own a 4 stroke, but she's tuff through the woops



Hey RoseCityMadMan in the 2nd picture, I see you found a good use for a quad   :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline RoseCityMadMan

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« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2012, 07:50:04 PM »
Hey RoseCityMadMan in the 2nd picture, I see you found a good use for a quad   :D

Yea, the Old Man like to take it out every now and then.  Maybe does it to give me a kick stand.  Not a lot of trees or anything to lean up against out in the desert!  Ha Ha   8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2012, 01:31:45 AM »
Current steed is a 2000 KTM 300exc, but I may look at a 2002 KTM 380 over the weekend..   ;D



Also just to show I'm not a 4 stroke hater,   I do own a 4 stroke, but she's tuff through the woops



Hey RoseCityMadMan in the 2nd picture, I see you found a good use for a quad   :D

Sweet Eric. I'll be taking a look at an 01 CR125 (honda) on the weekend. A guy is interested in swapping it for my pile o junk that was once a fooper. I think I might get the valves and camchain framed with the price underneath in big gold letters underneath. Followed by: I heart two strokes. With two expansion chambers for the heart.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2012, 12:20:46 PM »
just got back on a 2 stroke after 6 years on 4 strokes,  new ride tm300 and lovin it .  :D

Welcome to the forum Steeve. May I ask, what made you comeback to the smokers?

theres a couple of reasons , first of the cost of maintaining the 4$ was getting to me as i was changing oil all the time doing air filters every ride and always had at least 3 spare filters ready to go into it as they seem to get dirty twice as quik as 2 strokes .
2nd working on them is a P.I.T.A every thing is cramed into them so tight , swearing usually started about 5min into the job
3rd parts seemed to cost more for the equivalent parts on 2 strokes
4th weight ! i started on a crf450x and it was way to heavy for where i ride, ended up taking the mrs 250x and sold the 450r i got after selling the 450x
5th there are no 4$  that have all the things i wanted and the tm was perfect for me as soon as i rode 1 i was hooked , what i was after was a bike that was light and flickable in the tight stuff but would run with the big bikes when the trail opened up, is capable of hauling me around the mx track and it had to be registerable , basicly the tm is a perfect all rounder

Damn straight. No matter how light they make the bodywork of a four stroke, it will never be as light and flickable as a two stroke bike.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »