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Offline AFG

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The clock is ticking
« on: December 04, 2009, 10:12:04 PM »
I seem to remember back in 1977 John Banks won 2 rounds of the 500cc MXGP's on a CCM. People cheered like crazy(most were riders from the 50's-60's) because a 4 stroke won. At the time I couldn't understand what the big deal was about, and why would anyone want to ride that thing. I at the time had a Can-Am TNT 125 S/T, I was racing a RM-80(in 78 I moved up to open Int. on a 77 Maico AW-4OO, up pipe and all). What I didn't realize until much later was, those old guy's saw one last gasp of hope that their  Thumpers could pull out another championship against those pesky 2 strokes. You see back in the late 60's & 70's the 2 strokes began to get all the r&d dollars, and the designs evolved at a fever pitch while the 4T's just stopped evolving. Which left the 4 stroke Manufacturers( Triumph pre-Hinckley, BSA, Victors ) wondering what happened. It's been my experience that MX & Offroad engine designs and uses, have been cyclical to meet a demand, real or perceived just as many other things are. Usually 10-15 years on the turn around. It is my belief that if the Manufacturers that ignore historical trends of the last 40 years or so, run the risk of going the way of BSA and Victors. This current trend "super ubananium fi reverse cylinder seven valves" has almost run it's course. The masses(i.e. the uniformed gotta have it now) dictate who the successfull makers will be, when they buy their product. What all of us who love 2 strokes need to remember is OUR time is coming again soon, we only have 2-5 years before this cycle will be over, and the current crop of hard -core thumper guy's  will be the only ones riding them again, and blendzall will once again be burnt with pride.

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: The clock is ticking
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2009, 01:19:53 AM »
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in 78 I moved up to open Int. on a 77 Maico AW-4OO, up pipe and all

Sorry if this is a little off-topic but... damn.  I love the Magnum Maicos a lot, they've got that great compact engine and they look great but... the AW's will always have the true top position in my heart.  They were the last "true" Maicos.  They were the last ones to use the base engine that the factory built their legend around, and the last of the bad-ass Maico coffin tanks.  The '77 AW is, simply, the most beautiful bike ever made.  Or, at least it would be if they hadn't put that goofy over-sized rear fender on it!  If I had a '77 I'd cut that fender down to a proper, aggressive line, then put it on my front lawn and stare at it for weeks.

Okay, I'm done with my soliloquy.  You guys can go ahead and carry about the actual conversation again.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline JohnN

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Re: The clock is ticking
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2009, 06:10:59 AM »
AFG - I agree... the times they are a changing!

A few years ago when this site was first started, people were downright angry about the fact we were talking about two strokes. They would YELL, scream and call names saying there was NO way that the two stroke was ever coming back. Te technologically advanced four strokes would always beat the ancient two-strokes.

A funny thing happened. Some of these haters, started to recognize that their ideal machines were not so ideal.

Some local racers started to dig out their "old" two-strokes and go to the races and have some fun. The funny thing is that they started to do really well on them, in many cases exceeding their expectations. This encouraged others to switch back. The biggest stated reason for the switch? The fun factor!!

Then some of the local expert racers switched and when they raced and did well, the talk from the four stroke faithful was, "he's got a cheater bike!" Can you believe that they thought if a 250cc two-stroke could beat the 450F four stroke, the 250 rider had an overbore!! No that is funny!

But it points out the logic that has been perpetrated on the motocross buying public. The marketing hype has convinced people that the four-stroke is superior. But that in order to be so it has to be double displacement and people actually bought and believed it!! They believe it so much that they would accuse a 250cc two-stroke racer of cheating, if he was able to compete with or beat the 450F's.

What this shows me is that the tide is turning in a big way. The practice tracks late in the season have shifted to an almost 50/50 mix of four-strokes and two-strokes. This would have been unheard of just two years ago, then you would have been lucky to see 1 to 2 full sized two-strokes.

The unfortunate part is that the Big 4 manufacturers are not paying much attention to this trend, or at least it seems as though they are not. If they are not careful, they will loose a great deal of their most rabid customers to other manufacturers that will supply the bikes that racers want. Or the Big 4 brands will only sell parts for their used machines that racers continue to race sometimes for 10 or more years!

They are missing the boat!
Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!

Offline dogger315

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Re: The clock is ticking
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2009, 10:04:30 AM »
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The marketing hype has convinced people that the four-stroke is superior.
I never believed the four stroke was superior.  I switched (unfortunately) because the
rules gave the four strokes the advantage.  I had to spend a ton of money on engine
work just to make my 250 competitive while my competition could use a box stock
engine that produced the same horsepower and had a mellower power delivery.  That
power and powerband allowed a rider with less skill and conditioning to compete and
even win occasionally.  So, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I raced CRFs for four years.  My cost went up and my fun went down.  After a couple
of spectacular crashes caused by engine failures/seizures, I had enough - being laid up
for six months will do that to you. 

This goes back to the same root cause,  the unfair displacement advantage given to 4ts.  >:(

It's been two years since I last rode/raced.  I managed to sell all of my CRFs and all the
four stroke specific parts.  When I finally get the courage to jump back on that horse, it
will be on a CR.  In the meantime, I keep busy building and restoring bikes.

Message to the big four, the only four stroke I will ever ride again will be my John Deere
lawnmower.
 
dogger


Offline Out of Order

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Re: The clock is ticking
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2009, 11:26:50 AM »
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What all of us who love 2 strokes need to remember is OUR time is coming again soon, we only have 2-5 years before this cycle will be over, and the current crop of hard -core thumper guy's  will be the only ones riding them again, and blendzall will once again be burnt with pride.

True, history always repeats it self.

John,
   I always think about the early 2000's in the 125 class where we were lining up against 250 four strokes. I was always thinking this is no fair, they should be 125's too. 

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: The clock is ticking
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2009, 02:09:55 PM »
I don't know about you, dogger, but when I move out of my partents' house, I'm getting a two-stroke lawnmower.  That way I won't need a special gas can for "nonmix"


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?