Americian MX donimation?

[evo550]

This may start WW3....let's see Dragged from another thread.

I know you Americans are aways saying you have the better riders but until there is only one series it can be debated all night long.
Guys like Roczen,Desalle,Philippaerts,Coppins would do well anywere. Hell Coppins even got a top 10 on the POS Aprillia at the mxdn & he is a old bugger.
BT has done both series and when fit can run with anyone.
Different series different tracks.
BTW, Good morning & Happy New Year everyone.

.

  Happy Newyear

They do have "one series" that is run every year to determine the best. Its called the Motocross des Nations and America has won it 21 times in 40 years, the last 5 in a row. Im not saying you guys dont have good riders, just saying usually the best SX riders are here in the US. Just look at the results from Bercy and Geneva the last few years. I agree guys like Roczen, Desalle, Philippaerts, Coppins all would do well anywere but none of them have any titles in the US. Ben Townley won a lites title but never really did anything in the big bikes, Cairoli has never won anything in the US....he just backed out of the 2011 SX series a few days ago because KTM knew what would happen. Ken Roczen has the best chance of winning a SX title over any of the other foreign riders besides Chad Reed this season. I wish him luck
[/quote]


Yep, the Americians own supercross, no to ways about it, but motocross, I'm not so sure.
The MXDN analogy I find a bit flawed, for the simlpe reason.
The U.S. is quite possibly the largest county in the world in both land mass and population, therefore you have a massive "talent pool' to draw from. Europe on the other hand, although about the same land mass and population, is split into about 20 different countries.The effect of this is like expecting the U.S. to field a team from every state.
Would the stats be the same if it was a U.S. vs Eurpoe vs ANZACS vs.........
Secondly, the Europeans that come to compete in the U.S. series, certainly are very competitive....especially those bloody Frenchmen(They take your trophies AND your women   ). How many Americians have ventured across to race G.P's successfully ? Not many.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a yank bash, and for some reason any Americian rider that comes to town has a certain "auroa" about them, are they superhuman, no I don't think so, just fast in their own backyard

[Hondacrrider]

Well, actually, Russia has the world's largest land mass, Canada coming second, and China has the biggest population...

[riffraff]

Them Aussies do pretty good up here too!

[snook620]

I love a good debate     no offence intended


Yep, the Americians own supercross, no to ways about it, but motocross, I'm not so sure.

I agree....when Ricky retired it changed. I think with good starts Cairoli would have beat Dungey last year at the MXdN.



The U.S. is quite possibly the largest county in the world in both land mass and population, therefore you have a massive "talent pool' to draw from. Europe on the other hand, although about the same land mass and population, is split into about 20 different countries.The effect of this is like expecting the U.S. to field a team from every state.
Would the stats be the same if it was a U.S. vs Eurpoe vs ANZACS vs.........

Honestly I have no idea how many people/riders there are in Europe I just know about the fast ones. It seems to me that motocross in Europe is like baseball in America, its very popular. I dont know the exact numbers but I would think Europe to have twice as many riders as here in the US.



Secondly, the Europeans that come to compete in the U.S. series, certainly are very competitive....especially those bloody Frenchmen(They take your trophies AND your women   ). How many Americians have ventured across to race G.P's successfully ? Not many.

I agree, there have been European riders come to America and do well, but not many. That bloody frenchmen is a bad dude but it seemed to me it was Canard who was taking Pourcels trophies this year    As far as Americans going over to GPs....why would they?

[MMS]

As far as Americans going over to GPs....why would they?

To compete in the WORLD championship obviously.

The statement would more accurately apply in relation to European riders competing in America...."why would they?" (The answer being obviously that there's no reason other than not being able to cut it in the WORLD championships!)

[metal_miracle]

even if europe had more riders

in europe  its like if every state in usa had to have theire own team

like evo550 pointed out

[snook620]

As far as Americans going over to GPs....why would they?

To compete in the WORLD championship obviously.

The statement would more accurately apply in relation to European riders competing in America...."why would they?" (The answer being obviously that there's no reason other than not being able to cut it in the WORLD championships!)

A World Championship or an AMA Motocross Title? Come on.

Almost every great rider wants to come to America and race the best so they can get a piece of the fortune and fame. Winning a AMA Motocross or Supercross title would be the ultimate goal for almost any rider. (btw I think your backwards, riders who cant cut it in AMA motocross go to Europe).

[snook620]

even if europe had more riders

in europe  its like if every state in usa had to have theire own team

like evo550 pointed out

I agree. There are still some pretty stacked teams from Europe every year though.

[DangisMX]

Almost every great rider wants to come to America

I would disagree on that  . Some great riders want to come to America, just like some americans choose to go to Europe. And the primary reason for wanting to participate in AMA motocross or other events across the Atlantic is simply curiosity and desire to do something different for a change. I would go as far as to say, MOST aspiring european riders would die just to get the opportunity to race in the World Championship, but not so much the in AMA one. I know quite a few riders, some better than others (although none of world class   ), and they always talk about racing in the Nationals, the World Championship, The Dakar and things like that, but rarely about anything to do with AMA events. At least that is how i see it from where I stand.

Winning a AMA Motocross or Supercross title would be the ultimate goal for almost any rider

Again, if you're talking about the riders in USA then I guess you are right, I wouldn't know, but in Europe it's a different story. Some people here do like supercross too, but a lot (maybe even the better part) of riders don't really like supercross. Not that they dislike it, they simply don't care (I guess a good equivalent of supercross in Europe, in terms of popularity, would be sports like soccer or cricket in the USA). At least people I know and people who I get to talk to don't consider supercross to be the ultimate goal for them.


And finally...... When European riders go to race to America, they don't do to well, but the same can be said for Americans who come to Europe. I think the style of racing differs slightly, and it can be difficult to adapt to the transition.

P.S. this is a great topic . It's the "4stroke vs 2stroke" equivalent of this forum

[TMKIWI]

Thanks Evo  
I didn't want to start WW3 either.
The flaw in the mxdn is exactly what you pointed out.
POPULATION or more to the point more riders.
Most country's can send 1 -2 very good riders to the mxdn but the 3rd rider is where they fall down.
Having a rider finish in the 23rd position or worse kills your chance of winning.
Groombridge who was our 3rd rider altough a good rider is not even our currant national champ. The mx1 & mx2 champs were too old to be selected. Rider must be under 23. We just dont have the riders to choose from.
To be honest if the USA didn't win most of the time it would be embarrassing to them.
Belgium finished 2nd last year ( only 7 points behind ) and is the size of a post stamp.
NZ & Aussie combined has less people then LA.
I like the idea evo of a ANZAC team. BT,Read,Coppins & Metcalfe with 1 as a reserve would be pretty good.

[snook620]

I respect your opinion. I disagree with some of it and heres why....

Some great riders want to come to America, just like some americans choose to go to Europe. And the primary reason for wanting to participate in AMA motocross or other events across the Atlantic is simply curiosity and desire to do something different for a change.

When was the last time a "great" (what I mean by great is someone who is seriously a contender for the title) packed up and went to Europe? Hasnt happened in the 17 years Ive been following it as far as I know. I think most people want to come race in America because of the money and opportunities.

[snook620]

Thanks Evo  
I didn't want to start WW3 either.
The flaw in the mxdn is exactly what you pointed out.
POPULATION or more to the point more riders.
Most country's can send 1 -2 very good riders to the mxdn but the 3rd rider is where they fall down.
Having a rider finish in the 23rd position or worse kills your chance of winning.
Groombridge who was our 3rd rider altough a good rider is not even our currant national champ. The mx1 & mx2 champs were too old to be selected. Rider must be under 23. We just dont have the riders to choose from.
To be honest if the USA didn't win most of the time it would be embarrassing to them.
Belgium finished 2nd last year ( only 7 points behind ) and is the size of a post stamp.
NZ & Aussie combined has less people then LA.
I like the idea evo of a ANZAC team. BT,Read,Coppins & Metcalfe with 1 as a reserve would be pretty good.

I dont either and I love a good debate. Im simply passing my sunday    I love my country and its motocross racing just like you guys. This is simply my opinion.

[TMKIWI]

I respect your opinion. I disagree with some of it and heres why....

 I think most people want to come race in America because of the money and opportunities.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  MONEY.
The money for a good rider has always been better in the states.
Not sure about now with the problems going on.
Anyone one know why BT is going back to the worlds ?
And it's not because he can't cut it  

[snook620]

I think you hit the nail on the head.  MONEY.
The money for a good rider has always been better in the states.

If you were the greatest rider in the world wouldnt you want to race were you could make the most out of your short career? I would.

Anyone one know why BT is going back to the worlds ?
And it's not because he can't cut it .

Why is he leaving then? Ben is an amazing rider but didnt set the world on fire while he was here. He had some success on little bikes in 07 but never won anything in the premere class. I cant remember him ever winning a moto in big bikes. He was hurt more than he raced.

Honestly I think Ben had the talent just didnt have the luck I guess.

[scotty dog]

I think BT is going back to the worlds because he had a good run there before and he liked living and racing in Europe, i dont think he likes the US much...maybe the yanks take the piss out of him too much for his eccent bro... like when they might have sum fush n chups for dunner n git sum cold puss n put in the chully bun...hehehe .......just takin the puss cuz..