A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!

[opfermanmotors]

The 2010 is a base and the 2011 expanded on just like if you look at a 1987 CR250 then a 1988 CR250 for example.  However, there will be a lot of improvements on the 2011.  The 2011 pictures are most likely 2010 bikes with additional pieces for the 2011. Lke throw on the exhaust, test it with the existing bike.  I don't think any of those 2011 pictures are a full 2011 bike with all the new pieces.  Also, some improvements will not be visually seen, for example anything in the engine isn'ts going to be sticking out.

As far as I know if you want to buy a 2010 bike they are listed on the site with options, you can email them and request one.  However, as they mentioend, they do not have a US importer for 2010, so you'd be on your own to import it, which I know ppl have done for Koestler bikes in the past. 

[msambuco]

To all, I am a business man who runs my own company. I cannot create a service/product which is not needed and expect anyone to pay for it. I CAN provide a service/product which is in demand and be in the game. If I could find a service/product in demand that no one else was providing my demand would exceed my capacity. Forget the Japanese bikes (even my beloved YZ250). KTM, TM, Maico, and any other smaller firm that can make a good bike (product) will capitalize on the opportunity that lays before them now. When so many go back to the two stroke the race promotors will be in the same situation. Run the right classes or no turnout. The biggest revelation to me is that what they tried to teach me in high school about economics was for real. I owe a few teachers an apologie for being a punk pinhead. Anyone who loves there fourstroke should never have it taken away. And once the twostroke comes back no one should ever take it away either. The only 2 stroke/4stroke debate EVER should be at the campfire over some beers after a good day of racing or riding between buddies.

[SwapperMX]

Very well said Msambuco. So, so true. TM, KTM etc can really capitalise on the current market big time if they market it correctly and make smart decisions. They have the product to back it up, no doubt. I really hope TM makes big inroads into the MX market place. There has already been noticeable shifts in trends here in Aus preparing for the rule change to the lites class for next year. 250 two strokes have been selling like crazy, and the demand for all two stroke aftermarket accessories is on the rise. I know of several dealers that just refuse to trade second hand four strokes these days, and are also struggling to sell new four strokes, but have overwhelming demand for two strokes, especially 250's. It is happening, there is a shift, and people are once again realising what is most important, and that is to be out there riding, and not saving up to fix their four strokes, or spending hours on end in the shed fixing it, or performing "maintenance".

[JohnN]

The only thing I have to say is that it's easy to be critical of something and write about it on the internet. Anyone with a computer and basic writing skills can manage that.

For those of you that have said things about Maico International or about importing the bikes to the US (or anywhere else for that matter) have you taken a little initiative and called Vince or Lesley at Maico International? Or Rich Winkler at Dirt Wurx for US release information?

Should you take some of your time to do so, you will discover that these people are serious and excited about these new machines. And you will find out that they are attempting something that is above and beyond what most could imagine.

Listening to others (including me) on the Internet is like a huge game of telephone. I have experienced it myself. I have posted information on the main site, that was gleaned for the actual sources and had people tell me I was full of sh!t... of course they know better than the source. Right???

On the other hand I have had people mis-quote something that I wrote and use it in an argument against me!!

Crazy world we live in....

For me.. I'm giving those folks a chance to release their machines before I make any comments one way or the other. Just because it doesn't fit into your view of how things should be, doesn't mean it's not happening.

You guys talk about marketing budgets and how to sell bikes, but how many of you own and work your own business? Imagine if someone criticized what you did in your business at every turn. Or worse publicized what you actually did all day at work and made judgments about them...

the companies (TM, Gas Gas, Maico, etc) we're talking about here are small. Really small. In fact some local construction companies are bigger. And make more money. It's about passion... these folks have it in spades!

[SachsGS]

Ford started it (again)! The MSS will have to pay him a visit.

Getting back to the main topic, I'm old enough to remember the "dark and desolate" days of the early 80's when ; every Euro manufacturer was either bankrupt or on life support and the all dominating Japanese bikes were confused unrefined machines.

I knew the new Ossa would miss it's intro date, but who cares, the machine appears to be a work of art.As more and more Euro manufacturers jump back into the game with exciting two stroke projects I don't mind waiting for bikes like the new Fantics or International Maicos. It sure beats not having anything to choose from at all. 

[ford832]

Ford started it (again)! The MSS will have to pay him a visit.

Hahahahaha...and I'd do it again too.

I understand what you're saying John and can appreciate the effort BUT-as always,the proof remains to be seen or tested for that matter.
In my case it has less than nothing to do with ripping on another brand(unless it's Jetz and everything to do with seeing the bikes actually out there.I wish them the best and would love to see a small 2t manufacturer kick butt.That said,I could probably produce articles from the last 10 yrs promising the great Maico return in the next model year.
There comes a time to put up or shut up and imo it's almost that time

[opfermanmotors]

That said,I could probably produce articles from the last 10 yrs promising the great Maico return

Firstly, while this is true and I can even find a 1997 article on that, none of these returns were by Maico International.  None of these returns invested anywhere near the amount of effort and updating to the bikes that Maico International is doing.  No where near.  Also, in every case, the bikes WERE released.  There is not 1 year in which a Maico hasn't been made (can't even say the same for Husqvarna on that one .

Maico was owned by Merkle until the mid 1990s, possibly 1994/96.  He sold not the name but the production to a netherlands company who produced the bikes.  In 1997/98 they were announcing a come back.  It never seemed to materialize, however it really did and the bikes were even imported into the US.  There's a guy in Erie PA who was a dealer and STILL has some bikes in crate who was selling them on craigs list.  Not much was done to the bikes though aside from plastic changes and addition of hydraulics.

In 1999, Koestler started making bikes and he still does today.  He also sells them today however, while maybe he tried importing them in the early 2000s (I have a price list from 2000 from Maico USA below) it also never went anywhere.

I don't know all the details of what happened, however the bikes were made and even imported.  One thing I think that happened during those times was NO ONE REALLY KNEW when it happened or WHERE to get them.  Some ppl who knew even iported their own bikes (I've known several ppl who did this). 

In fact, even Koestler told me earlier this year I can order any bike or motor from him when I was ordering old Maico parts.  One of the things I think was either little interest from the dealer side in advertising or even if there was, harder for a smaller company to be recognized.  I mean, GasGas, TM, those aren't mainstream bikes but have larger budgets than Maico International does right now most likely and without the internet I bet no one would have heard of them.  I think that's one of the biggest advantages now, the internet is more mainstream than 10 years ago and when ppl relied solely on a magazine saying they were comming back and no other information hard to find them.  The internet has allowed more cheap, mass advertising and easier to reach ppl and ppl will be easier able to find them.

So, when you talk about "comebacks" not happening.  They did, you just didn't see them.  They also had nothing to do with Maico International, so as John says probably best to talk to them if you have questions.









US Maico Parts List from early 2000s, last page has new bikes price list.

http://www.maicowerk.com/Images/Maico/Manuals/Pdfs/USMaicoPartsList.pdf

[evo550]

Sorry guys, but I agree with Ford (can't beleive I just said that )
I am in the building game, where I manufacture and sell retaining wall components and have done so for the last 15 yrs or so, which gives me some understanding of the issues in getting something out into a market already flooded with similar products.
I also have owned and raced Maico's on and off since 1983, so I have an certain affinity with the brand, Unfortunatly I can't help but feel a little doubtful, as it seems other people are as well.
It would be interesting to have this conversation again in 2012, and see if a 125 was ever released ?
After all you heard it on TSM first, with quotes from Neil Berry, gotta be true right?

[SachsGS]

Lorenz Merkle sold Maico in 1995.The 96 thru 98 Dutch Maicos were based on the Merkle bikes.In 1999 the Maico was significantly redesigned and the Koestler machines are based this version. I own both machines and while they are both Maicos (and more importantly both have that distinctive "Maico feel") they are distinctly different from one another.

It's surprising actually how many of the newer Maicos are "floating around" given the miniscule production numbers. For example, in Alberta, Canada there is a guy kicking butt in the vet class on a newer 500.

I personally believe that given the enormous popularity of vintage Maicos and the huge aftermarket industry that caters to this niche market, if this popularity can be converted into modern bikes and "modern customers", then Maico will be o.k..

[Bioflex]

Sachs, can you explain the differences between the 96 model Maico and the later models once Koestler took over?

I am intrigued, as I own a 96 model, a blue machine which very few of are about. I have been tempted to buy a later model one (anywhere from 2000-2009) but have been apprehensive as at least visually very little changed.
I was very keen until I read a recent comparison between a 2008 Maico 500, a KTM 525 as well as a Sherco 4 sroke 510. The way they described the Maico was that it had been updated very little and felt very old school compared to the newer bikes.

Unfortunately, that sounds very much like my 96 model, hence why I haven't bought a newer one yet. Any differences you can describe would be appreciated as you have renewed my hope in these machines.

Saying all of this, (especially considering the 2008 review) I too am very sceptical about how different the new Maico's will be. If the last one's have been anything like my 96 model they will need to COMPLETELY redesign the bike, frame, suspension, engine and give it a while different ergo's package - if they want to compete with 2010 + competitors. These minor changes with swingarms, alloy tanks etc excite me very little.

Opferman, I here people quite often proudly claim Maico's models have been released every year in succession since the bikes were first made, however it does beg the question to how much these have changed.
If the bikes from 2000 - 2009 were changed very little (or infact not at all, which is what I believe) is it right to say a "new" model was released every year? I think it's quite deceiving saying that as very little progression has occured at all.

[SachsGS]

Bioflex, the first thing I must say (and this shows how old school I am) is that I moved the location of my Koestler 380's footpegs to match that of my 83's footpeg location. I'm very tall and this made the bike more comfortable for me.My Koestler 380 steers slightly more quickly then my Merkle 500, to the point that I installed a steering damper to counter the "odd wiggle".The 380's frame is different then the 500 and has a much more massive swingarm, giving the bike a "more planted" feel.The 380's WP suspension works well but I still think the Rieger shock is the best rear shock made.

The seating position of the 380 is much flatter then the 500, but there's something to be said for the 500's arrangement - on long rides the old school position is actually quite comfortable.I upgraded to Brembo's on my 500 (from the Grimecas) but the 380's brakes are still WAY more powerful.What really impresses me about the 380 is the engine,it was fun revving it at the races because it sounds like a "works" engine - every time I revved it people would jerk their heads to see where the sound is coming from.At wide open throttle that 380 might just be faster then the 500 - it really hauls.

The Maico is old school compared to a KTM 525? I'll take an old fashioned Maico anyday over one of those vague steering,twitchy PDS barges thank you.

My Maico 380 feels like a "works" bike to me - the frame is so rigid,the brakes and engine so powerful that when I was "on the money" I'd line up a friend, or if I was at the races, a competitor and pull the trigger.

There is evolution and then there is the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I think that my 1983 handles better then most modern bikes I have ridden, "progress" can be a aberrant tangent.

My advice to you would be that if you enjoy your 1996 then you will really enjoy the newer Maicos.

[opfermanmotors]

Opferman, I here people quite often proudly claim Maico's models have been released every year in succession since the bikes were first made, however it does beg the question to how much these have changed.
If the bikes from 2000 - 2009 were changed very little (or infact not at all, which is what I believe) is it right to say a "new" model was released every year? I think it's quite deceiving saying that as very little progression has occured at all.

I would say yes, because the CR500 also didn't change for 10 years.  I also said that there were very little engine changes even in the 90s, most everything that changed was frame or suspension related.  And since 1999, they probably have been exactly the same until 2009-2010 with Maico International's involvement.

They are being made brand new even if they haven't changed.  Twinkies haven't changed and are released every year, every month, or do you say they are no longer being manufactured because they don't change them?

[Bioflex]

Thanks for the responses guys.
The info you have provided on the newer Maico's makes me quite excited, Sachs. I had assumed very little had changed between my 96 model and the one's through the next decade. Given that, Ill try to add one to my collection. The plan is to have a model of Maico whenever any kind of significant changes were made, looks like there are enough to justify it there.

Opferman, the Twinkies comparison is an odd one. I've no doubts the manufacturers of those (like many manufacturers of iconic food goods) pride themselves with no recipe changes in 50 years, sometimes more (A products popular in Australia proudly claims no chnages in 70 years).
While Maico may have done the same, the issue I have is calling it a "new model" which is implied with each change, 2000, 2001 etc.
I suppose if they make it clear when you buy one that the 2002 is almost identical to the 2009 I wouldn't be too upset, if it wasn't made clear I'd be annoyed though.

[JETZcorp]

Well, in that case, you'd think that when the Dodge dealerships got their shipment of Chargers made in 2010, they should've put a sticker on the window saying "2006 Charger" because the car wasn't changed.  Come to think of it, Maico's bikes are considerably more "fresh" at the moment than Yamaha's two-stroke line.  Almost nowhere do you really get any substantive changes in a model every single year, and in a great majority you don't get any changes at all for many years at a stretch (with cars it's almost always a 4-year cycle).  The model-year designation refers to just that, the model-year in which the product was manufactured.  That doesn't always correspond to the model-year it was introduced in its current form.

[opfermanmotors]

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/2078427993.html

If I was in Kanas I'd get this