Two Stroke Motocross

Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: JohnN on November 30, 2010, 03:53:01 PM

Title: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JohnN on November 30, 2010, 03:53:01 PM
You read it here first!!

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/11/125-4-2012/ (http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/11/125-4-2012/)
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on November 30, 2010, 04:45:04 PM
Excellent news! ;D
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JETZcorp on November 30, 2010, 06:24:37 PM
If they put a rotary valve on this one again, I will simply have no choice but to buy one.  But considering that the modern buyer is liable to reject anything that's "funny looking" I don't think they would do that.  Still, this is tremendous news from the Maico camp, this is another foot in the door for them to spread out in the market and gain notoriety.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: miedosoracing on December 01, 2010, 04:48:13 AM
That is great news, but I fear they missed the boat.  I believe from everything being said, that they should be focusing on a 150cc.  KTM is killing it with theirs. If there were more manufacturers making them, it may make for a great shootout for magazines.  Yamaha has the GTY kit and I could even donate my CR for a weekend. Hee hee.   Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe someday 125s will rule again, but it sure seems like 150 is the way to go.  JMHO.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JohnN on December 01, 2010, 05:19:36 AM
I understand where you're coming from Chad... it does seem that the 125 is down for the count. But there is a small revolution occurring... more and more people are buying 125 motocross bikes. The Schoolboy class video from the Mini O's shows the difference... you can see and hear the difference between the two-strokes and the four-strokes.

It's only going to grow. At least that's my humble opinion.

Besides, once Maico has the bottom end for the 125 it would not be a huge deal to built a 150 sometime in the future.

Were it not for the crazy rules developed to allow four-strokes to be competitive, we would not have this problem. It's a real shame.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: miedosoracing on December 01, 2010, 08:54:20 AM
Yup for sure. Shame, but that is what money and greed do.  I'm still waiting for the excuses on why a small 150cc and 300cc won't be allowed this year. I know it is coming, just waiting for the excuses.  Last year it was because the 250 2 stroke would do 3 seconds a lap faster.  And what made me laugh about that, is that 450F's don't do faster lap times than 250F's, so funny how that works. If that is what they say about the 150cc and 300cc's I will laugh my azz off.  Oh, and by the way, if it is because no companies make those bikes, then it should be even easier to pass, instead of harder.  I mean, what would they be scared of, if  "no OEM's make them."  Just pass the rule and see where it falls. But I regress, because we all know what will happen.  "Sorry, maybe next year."
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: ford832 on December 02, 2010, 11:52:19 AM
It certainly sounds interesting and I'd love to see it-but-I can't help but notice how all the other manufacturers play it pretty close to the chest when rumours of a new model start circulating until it arrives in short order.It seems with the Maico's you hear about them forever but never see it happen.I'm starting to think they're just an urban legend. :-X
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: burn1986 on December 02, 2010, 02:18:15 PM
I have to say X2.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: evo550 on December 02, 2010, 02:42:31 PM
I have to say X2.
It certainly sounds interesting and I'd love to see it-but-I can't help but notice how all the other manufacturers play it pretty close to the chest when rumours of a new model start circulating until it arrives in short order.It seems with the Maico's you hear about them forever but never see it happen.I'm starting to think they're just an urban legend. :-X

Yep,
Maico haven't even released the bikes they said they would, let alone something "rumoured"
Don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 02, 2010, 03:24:27 PM
What bikes didn't Maico release?  They are released just not imported into the US by a distributor, other countries did get some.  If you want to import one yourself for a 2010 model I'm sure you can.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: evo550 on December 02, 2010, 04:20:19 PM
What countries did get them?
Australia didn't.
U.S. didn't.
How many where released/sold in Europe???
ALMOST here as of June 14.
http://www.mxnewsfeed.com/article.php?artid=2776 (http://www.mxnewsfeed.com/article.php?artid=2776)
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 02, 2010, 04:26:41 PM
That article is for the 2011 Maicos.  The 2011 Maicos will be released in 2011.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: evo550 on December 02, 2010, 08:37:24 PM
Same pics used for 2010 model..Maico International site says "Coming soon", It's December.
http://www.maicointernational.com/index.html (http://www.maicointernational.com/index.html)
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 02, 2010, 08:42:43 PM
This press release was just released 4 days ago. They plan to release a 2011 bike in 2011.

Quote
As many speculate as to the timing of the release of the new M.M.X. The British Manufacturers rather more traditional approach of releasing a 2011 bike for 2011 is really quite simple: Maico Internationals Lesley White lifts the lid on the approach they have adopted.

Every year manufacturers battle against each other to release bikes earlier and earlier desperate to gain interest and a possible market share before the others, a prime example of this is that 2011 bikes were available in the U.K. back in July, the knock on effect of this is felt by the hard working distributors and dealers who can easily be holding thousands of pounds/dollars/euros of current stock only to be told, next yearsâ?? bike will be here next week effectively leaving them saddled with what appears to be last yearsâ?? bikes which will almost certainly have to be sold at a loss!

Dealers and distributors along with the motocross buying public work hard for their money and at the end of any given year can be attempting to sell a bike which could be eighteen months old thus devaluing the second hand market as although their bike may be only eighteen months old it may well appear far more outdated as the following years machine will almost certainly be available! Is this the way to treat the dealers, distributors and hard working members of the public?

We donâ??t think so!

This general approach to the release of next yearsâ?? models has had is effects on all areas of the industry, clothing manufacturers are now following the trend, well if youâ??ve got next yearsâ?? bike in August surely you want next yearsâ?? kit to go with it? The sad thing is that by time next year arrives it all looks a little less shiny and as you creep into the garage to have a look at your 2011 bike on New Yearsâ?? Eve the battle scars may already be starting to show before we have reached the year it was meant to have been manufactured for.

More news on the 2011 models and our strategy very soon.

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: evo550 on December 02, 2010, 08:50:28 PM
So did they release a 2010 model, or is it going to be released as a 2011 model?
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 02, 2010, 09:02:30 PM
The 2010 is a base and the 2011 expanded on just like if you look at a 1987 CR250 then a 1988 CR250 for example.  However, there will be a lot of improvements on the 2011.  The 2011 pictures are most likely 2010 bikes with additional pieces for the 2011. Lke throw on the exhaust, test it with the existing bike.  I don't think any of those 2011 pictures are a full 2011 bike with all the new pieces.  Also, some improvements will not be visually seen, for example anything in the engine isn'ts going to be sticking out.

As far as I know if you want to buy a 2010 bike they are listed on the site with options, you can email them and request one.  However, as they mentioend, they do not have a US importer for 2010, so you'd be on your own to import it, which I know ppl have done for Koestler bikes in the past. 
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: msambuco on December 02, 2010, 09:52:33 PM
To all, I am a business man who runs my own company. I cannot create a service/product which is not needed and expect anyone to pay for it. I CAN provide a service/product which is in demand and be in the game. If I could find a service/product in demand that no one else was providing my demand would exceed my capacity. Forget the Japanese bikes (even my beloved YZ250). KTM, TM, Maico, and any other smaller firm that can make a good bike (product) will capitalize on the opportunity that lays before them now. When so many go back to the two stroke the race promotors will be in the same situation. Run the right classes or no turnout. The biggest revelation to me is that what they tried to teach me in high school about economics was for real. I owe a few teachers an apologie for being a punk pinhead. Anyone who loves there fourstroke should never have it taken away. And once the twostroke comes back no one should ever take it away either. The only 2 stroke/4stroke debate EVER should be at the campfire over some beers after a good day of racing or riding between buddies.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SwapperMX on December 03, 2010, 12:25:45 AM
Very well said Msambuco. So, so true. TM, KTM etc can really capitalise on the current market big time if they market it correctly and make smart decisions. They have the product to back it up, no doubt. I really hope TM makes big inroads into the MX market place. There has already been noticeable shifts in trends here in Aus preparing for the rule change to the lites class for next year. 250 two strokes have been selling like crazy, and the demand for all two stroke aftermarket accessories is on the rise. I know of several dealers that just refuse to trade second hand four strokes these days, and are also struggling to sell new four strokes, but have overwhelming demand for two strokes, especially 250's. It is happening, there is a shift, and people are once again realising what is most important, and that is to be out there riding, and not saving up to fix their four strokes, or spending hours on end in the shed fixing it, or performing "maintenance".
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JohnN on December 03, 2010, 10:28:55 AM
The only thing I have to say is that it's easy to be critical of something and write about it on the internet. Anyone with a computer and basic writing skills can manage that.

For those of you that have said things about Maico International or about importing the bikes to the US (or anywhere else for that matter) have you taken a little initiative and called Vince or Lesley at Maico International? Or Rich Winkler at Dirt Wurx for US release information?

Should you take some of your time to do so, you will discover that these people are serious and excited about these new machines. And you will find out that they are attempting something that is above and beyond what most could imagine.

Listening to others (including me) on the Internet is like a huge game of telephone. I have experienced it myself. I have posted information on the main site, that was gleaned for the actual sources and had people tell me I was full of sh!t... of course they know better than the source. Right???

On the other hand I have had people mis-quote something that I wrote and use it in an argument against me!!

Crazy world we live in....

For me.. I'm giving those folks a chance to release their machines before I make any comments one way or the other. Just because it doesn't fit into your view of how things should be, doesn't mean it's not happening.

You guys talk about marketing budgets and how to sell bikes, but how many of you own and work your own business? Imagine if someone criticized what you did in your business at every turn. Or worse publicized what you actually did all day at work and made judgments about them...

the companies (TM, Gas Gas, Maico, etc) we're talking about here are small. Really small. In fact some local construction companies are bigger. And make more money. It's about passion... these folks have it in spades!
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 03, 2010, 12:25:49 PM
Ford started it (again)! The MSS will have to pay him a visit. >:D

Getting back to the main topic, I'm old enough to remember the "dark and desolate" days of the early 80's when ; every Euro manufacturer was either bankrupt or on life support and the all dominating Japanese bikes were confused unrefined machines.

I knew the new Ossa would miss it's intro date, but who cares, the machine appears to be a work of art.As more and more Euro manufacturers jump back into the game with exciting two stroke projects I don't mind waiting for bikes like the new Fantics or International Maicos. It sure beats not having anything to choose from at all.  ;D
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: ford832 on December 03, 2010, 02:45:23 PM
Ford started it (again)! The MSS will have to pay him a visit. >:D

Hahahahaha...and I'd do it again too. :D

I understand what you're saying John and can appreciate the effort BUT-as always,the proof remains to be seen or tested for that matter.
In my case it has less than nothing to do with ripping on another brand(unless it's Jetz :)) and everything to do with seeing the bikes actually out there.I wish them the best and would love to see a small 2t manufacturer kick butt.That said,I could probably produce articles from the last 10 yrs promising the great Maico return in the next model year.
There comes a time to put up or shut up and imo it's almost that time :)
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 03, 2010, 03:44:26 PM
Quote
That said,I could probably produce articles from the last 10 yrs promising the great Maico return

Firstly, while this is true and I can even find a 1997 article on that, none of these returns were by Maico International.  None of these returns invested anywhere near the amount of effort and updating to the bikes that Maico International is doing.  No where near.  Also, in every case, the bikes WERE released.  There is not 1 year in which a Maico hasn't been made (can't even say the same for Husqvarna on that one :)).

Maico was owned by Merkle until the mid 1990s, possibly 1994/96.  He sold not the name but the production to a netherlands company who produced the bikes.  In 1997/98 they were announcing a come back.  It never seemed to materialize, however it really did and the bikes were even imported into the US.  There's a guy in Erie PA who was a dealer and STILL has some bikes in crate who was selling them on craigs list.  Not much was done to the bikes though aside from plastic changes and addition of hydraulics.

In 1999, Koestler started making bikes and he still does today.  He also sells them today however, while maybe he tried importing them in the early 2000s (I have a price list from 2000 from Maico USA below) it also never went anywhere.

I don't know all the details of what happened, however the bikes were made and even imported.  One thing I think that happened during those times was NO ONE REALLY KNEW when it happened or WHERE to get them.  Some ppl who knew even iported their own bikes (I've known several ppl who did this). 

In fact, even Koestler told me earlier this year I can order any bike or motor from him when I was ordering old Maico parts.  One of the things I think was either little interest from the dealer side in advertising or even if there was, harder for a smaller company to be recognized.  I mean, GasGas, TM, those aren't mainstream bikes but have larger budgets than Maico International does right now most likely and without the internet I bet no one would have heard of them.  I think that's one of the biggest advantages now, the internet is more mainstream than 10 years ago and when ppl relied solely on a magazine saying they were comming back and no other information hard to find them.  The internet has allowed more cheap, mass advertising and easier to reach ppl and ppl will be easier able to find them.

So, when you talk about "comebacks" not happening.  They did, you just didn't see them.  They also had nothing to do with Maico International, so as John says probably best to talk to them if you have questions.



(http://www.maicowerk.com/Articles/Maico%20Y2K/maico99review-1.jpg)

(http://www.maicowerk.com/Articles/1997%20Maicos/mp01.jpg)

(http://www.maicowerk.com/Articles/Maico%20Y2K/maico99review-3.jpg)

US Maico Parts List from early 2000s, last page has new bikes price list.

http://www.maicowerk.com/Images/Maico/Manuals/Pdfs/USMaicoPartsList.pdf (http://www.maicowerk.com/Images/Maico/Manuals/Pdfs/USMaicoPartsList.pdf)

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: evo550 on December 03, 2010, 04:14:49 PM
Sorry guys, but I agree with Ford (can't beleive I just said that ;D)
I am in the building game, where I manufacture and sell retaining wall components and have done so for the last 15 yrs or so, which gives me some understanding of the issues in getting something out into a market already flooded with similar products.
I also have owned and raced Maico's on and off since 1983, so I have an certain affinity with the brand, Unfortunatly I can't help but feel a little doubtful, as it seems other people are as well.
It would be interesting to have this conversation again in 2012, and see if a 125 was ever released ?
After all you heard it on TSM first, with quotes from Neil Berry, gotta be true right?
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 03, 2010, 04:24:20 PM
Lorenz Merkle sold Maico in 1995.The 96 thru 98 Dutch Maicos were based on the Merkle bikes.In 1999 the Maico was significantly redesigned and the Koestler machines are based this version. I own both machines and while they are both Maicos (and more importantly both have that distinctive "Maico feel") they are distinctly different from one another.

It's surprising actually how many of the newer Maicos are "floating around" given the miniscule production numbers. For example, in Alberta, Canada there is a guy kicking butt in the vet class on a newer 500.

I personally believe that given the enormous popularity of vintage Maicos and the huge aftermarket industry that caters to this niche market, if this popularity can be converted into modern bikes and "modern customers", then Maico will be o.k..
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: Bioflex on December 03, 2010, 05:14:59 PM
Sachs, can you explain the differences between the 96 model Maico and the later models once Koestler took over?

I am intrigued, as I own a 96 model, a blue machine which very few of are about. I have been tempted to buy a later model one (anywhere from 2000-2009) but have been apprehensive as at least visually very little changed.
I was very keen until I read a recent comparison between a 2008 Maico 500, a KTM 525 as well as a Sherco 4 sroke 510. The way they described the Maico was that it had been updated very little and felt very old school compared to the newer bikes.

Unfortunately, that sounds very much like my 96 model, hence why I haven't bought a newer one yet. Any differences you can describe would be appreciated as you have renewed my hope in these machines.

Saying all of this, (especially considering the 2008 review) I too am very sceptical about how different the new Maico's will be. If the last one's have been anything like my 96 model they will need to COMPLETELY redesign the bike, frame, suspension, engine and give it a while different ergo's package - if they want to compete with 2010 + competitors. These minor changes with swingarms, alloy tanks etc excite me very little.

Opferman, I here people quite often proudly claim Maico's models have been released every year in succession since the bikes were first made, however it does beg the question to how much these have changed.
If the bikes from 2000 - 2009 were changed very little (or infact not at all, which is what I believe) is it right to say a "new" model was released every year? I think it's quite deceiving saying that as very little progression has occured at all.



Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 03, 2010, 07:14:47 PM
Bioflex, the first thing I must say (and this shows how old school I am) is that I moved the location of my Koestler 380's footpegs to match that of my 83's footpeg location. I'm very tall and this made the bike more comfortable for me.My Koestler 380 steers slightly more quickly then my Merkle 500, to the point that I installed a steering damper to counter the "odd wiggle".The 380's frame is different then the 500 and has a much more massive swingarm, giving the bike a "more planted" feel.The 380's WP suspension works well but I still think the Rieger shock is the best rear shock made.

The seating position of the 380 is much flatter then the 500, but there's something to be said for the 500's arrangement - on long rides the old school position is actually quite comfortable.I upgraded to Brembo's on my 500 (from the Grimecas) but the 380's brakes are still WAY more powerful.What really impresses me about the 380 is the engine,it was fun revving it at the races because it sounds like a "works" engine - every time I revved it people would jerk their heads to see where the sound is coming from.At wide open throttle that 380 might just be faster then the 500 - it really hauls.

The Maico is old school compared to a KTM 525? I'll take an old fashioned Maico anyday over one of those vague steering,twitchy PDS barges thank you.

My Maico 380 feels like a "works" bike to me - the frame is so rigid,the brakes and engine so powerful that when I was "on the money" I'd line up a friend, or if I was at the races, a competitor and pull the trigger.

There is evolution and then there is the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I think that my 1983 handles better then most modern bikes I have ridden, "progress" can be a aberrant tangent.

My advice to you would be that if you enjoy your 1996 then you will really enjoy the newer Maicos.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 03, 2010, 09:06:18 PM
Quote
Opferman, I here people quite often proudly claim Maico's models have been released every year in succession since the bikes were first made, however it does beg the question to how much these have changed.
If the bikes from 2000 - 2009 were changed very little (or infact not at all, which is what I believe) is it right to say a "new" model was released every year? I think it's quite deceiving saying that as very little progression has occured at all.

I would say yes, because the CR500 also didn't change for 10 years.  I also said that there were very little engine changes even in the 90s, most everything that changed was frame or suspension related.  And since 1999, they probably have been exactly the same until 2009-2010 with Maico International's involvement.

They are being made brand new even if they haven't changed.  Twinkies haven't changed and are released every year, every month, or do you say they are no longer being manufactured because they don't change them?
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: Bioflex on December 03, 2010, 10:34:51 PM
Thanks for the responses guys.
The info you have provided on the newer Maico's makes me quite excited, Sachs. I had assumed very little had changed between my 96 model and the one's through the next decade. Given that, Ill try to add one to my collection. The plan is to have a model of Maico whenever any kind of significant changes were made, looks like there are enough to justify it there.

Opferman, the Twinkies comparison is an odd one. I've no doubts the manufacturers of those (like many manufacturers of iconic food goods) pride themselves with no recipe changes in 50 years, sometimes more (A products popular in Australia proudly claims no chnages in 70 years).
While Maico may have done the same, the issue I have is calling it a "new model" which is implied with each change, 2000, 2001 etc.
I suppose if they make it clear when you buy one that the 2002 is almost identical to the 2009 I wouldn't be too upset, if it wasn't made clear I'd be annoyed though.

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JETZcorp on December 03, 2010, 10:49:02 PM
Well, in that case, you'd think that when the Dodge dealerships got their shipment of Chargers made in 2010, they should've put a sticker on the window saying "2006 Charger" because the car wasn't changed.  Come to think of it, Maico's bikes are considerably more "fresh" at the moment than Yamaha's two-stroke line.  Almost nowhere do you really get any substantive changes in a model every single year, and in a great majority you don't get any changes at all for many years at a stretch (with cars it's almost always a 4-year cycle).  The model-year designation refers to just that, the model-year in which the product was manufactured.  That doesn't always correspond to the model-year it was introduced in its current form.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 03, 2010, 11:00:55 PM
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/2078427993.html (http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/2078427993.html)

If I was in Kanas I'd get this
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: evo550 on December 03, 2010, 11:51:40 PM
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/2078427993.html (http://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/2078427993.html)

If I was in Kanas I'd get this
Must be free, don't see a price ?
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 03, 2010, 11:54:44 PM
Even better
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: ford832 on December 04, 2010, 03:33:15 AM

Must be free, don't see a price ?

How else are you going to sell them if you don't give them away? :D
There is something to be said for something not changing and being old school ergonomically and all that,given a particular persons riding style,size,preferences etc.-but-times have changed and if one wants to appeal to the masses your product must suit what people know,are used to and want.Nowadays,most don't like the "sit in" ergo's of the old CR/KX 500's or XR's(anyone ever notice the popularity of the Service bikes?).If your plan is to sell to the old school faithful,that's fine but if you want to appeal to the largest market,you've got to be modern.
Yamaha 2t's may not have changed much Jetz but they are still the same set up as anything else out there ergo wise 2 or 4t.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 04, 2010, 09:06:27 AM
Seems to me Yamaha is going to be "giving away" a lot of four strokes in the near future. :D

The ergonomics of modern Maicos are of the "Euro high footpeg" mentality and are very similar to a TM for example.While differing slightly from the Japanese two strokes the ergonomics of a current Maico are no less modern.The ergos of the latest KTMs make the Japanese two stroke ergonomics seem dated in my opinion.

Ergonomics are one thing and the subjective handling characteristics of a motorcycle are another. At one end of the spectrum you have the Yamaha "competent but bland",bikes that are stable with nice cornering qualities (ex.: Maico and Husaberg) and at the other end lively bikes that only want to turn (RM).

I further question Yamaha's attempt to broaden the "mass market appeal" of their two stroke line, other then a token aluminum frame how much have the Yamaha's changed since the mid 90's? I could argue that my Koestler Maico differs more from a Merkle Maico then a current Yamaha two stroke does a late 90's version.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 04, 2010, 01:01:42 PM

Latest news:

http://www.tillamooksingletrackmagazine.com/Articles/Generic/index.php?id=2 (http://www.tillamooksingletrackmagazine.com/Articles/Generic/index.php?id=2)

Here is an email Dirt Wurx sent someone the other day.


Quote
Here is the latest status...
Yes we, (Dirt Wurx USA), are going to be the US distributor for MAICO. We
have a deal in place with MAICO UK to import the bikes and we have secured
the required permission from US DOT to bring the bikes in. We are still
working on the EPA import legalities, but we are told this part moves
fairly quickly.
Best Guess... it will probably be 45 to 60 days yet before we are good to
go..


As for the bikes, the news is really exciting...
With the recent announcement by MAICO UK that they will begin building
their own frames and engines in the UK for the 2011 model year, all
similarity with the somewhat dated bikes sporadically imported in recent
years goes by the wayside!
The MAICO UK guys are doing EXTENSIVE R&D and either building or buying
all the good stuff you see in the brochure or at MXA, or on my site, and
then hand assembling each bike from the ground up. I have been over to the
UK several times in the last few months and the bikes are really cool.
Vince Page is a Maico "True Believer" and has put a ton of time and money
into the R&D of updating the bikes, and it really shows !


Unfortunately with the dollar/euro and dollar/pound exchange rate these
days they are going to be pricey... 12k+ range for the big bores...
maybe a bit less for the 250 and 320, but these are really hand built high
end bikes with all the good stuff as stock, and MAICO UK is making a
program available to us where the customer can upgrade very reasonably as
new parts become available in subsequent years, so your bike will not
become dated as quick as with the Japanese models. Obviously it is an
expensive niche bike, but I'm a MAICO nut and I'm going to give it my best
to get them over here at as best a price as I can, and hope there are
enough guys like me out there to make it viable. There is just something
about a traditional motocross two-stroke that makes me want to keep them
alive in a world of cookie-cutter Japanese four banger boat anchors !


Obviously we are going to be doing this on a very small scale at first,
strictly distributor direct. We will keep a supply of spares on hand
here, and many of the components are common to other brands, (Magura,
Brembo, Talon, WP, etc.), and will therefore be available from Parts
Unlimited and similar sources. I would love to grow it in the coming
years to where we have a small group of dealers who are as into the bikes
we are, but to be frank, I doubt we will ever have a dealer on every
corner in the lower 48.
WINK 
 

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: ford832 on December 04, 2010, 02:58:27 PM
Seems to me Yamaha is going to be "giving away" a lot of four strokes in the near future. :D

The ergonomics of modern Maicos are of the "Euro high footpeg" mentality and are very similar to a TM for example.While differing slightly from the Japanese two strokes the ergonomics of a current Maico are no less modern.The ergos of the latest KTMs make the Japanese two stroke ergonomics seem dated in my opinion.

Ergonomics are one thing and the subjective handling characteristics of a motorcycle are another. At one end of the spectrum you have the Yamaha "competent but bland",bikes that are stable with nice cornering qualities (ex.: Maico and Husaberg) and at the other end lively bikes that only want to turn (RM).

I further question Yamaha's attempt to broaden the "mass market appeal" of their two stroke line, other then a token aluminum frame how much have the Yamaha's changed since the mid 90's? I could argue that my Koestler Maico differs more from a Merkle Maico then a current Yamaha two stroke does a late 90's version.

The latest KTM I've ridden is an 08 and ergo wise I noticed little dif from the YZ-both fit me fine.My Berg had very high pegs but It never bothered me at all.Yamaha has long been known for being a fairly conservative company when it comes to sweeping changes which is likely why their bikes are not generally known for being stellar in one area and poor in another but good all around.I'm not a Yamaha die hard either but I guess in order to compare it to the Maico I'd have to give one a shot.You should bring yours down this way next summer Sachs. :)
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 04, 2010, 03:20:28 PM
The latest KTM two strokes are impressive in their ergo's and I'm not a big fan of the brand. I haven't seen the 2011 Gassers yet but everybody else will pretty much be playing catchup to those new 2011 Katooms.

My mother in law ( :o) is from the maritimes and maybe I'll make out that way in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 04, 2010, 03:23:07 PM
The day Ford rides a Maico he will change his profile pic to Otto Maisch.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 04, 2010, 03:30:14 PM
I personally believe the ghosts of Otto and Wilhelm pay Ford regular nightly visits (sort of like Scrooge in "A Christmas Carol").Now if he studied a little German he could understand the advice he is receiving. ::)
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: ford832 on December 04, 2010, 04:34:37 PM
Sweet,bring the bike and ditch the wife at the in laws and come out for a ride :)
I get visited by many ghosts in my dreams.Adolf and Heinrich Maisch isn't it?Yeah, something like that :)
I also happen to be fluent in dream german.I believe they speak to me regularly.Something along the lines of " Aryans are the master race,the fourth Reich shall rise and Maico's will be imported in the next 50 yrs ;)
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JETZcorp on December 04, 2010, 09:08:24 PM
The Adolf fellow would be Mr. Weil; he's trying to tell you about how many races he won.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: bearorso on December 05, 2010, 07:13:52 AM
I've owned, I think 9 Maicos in my 50 years, the last 2 Merkle produced 320 and 500s. I would have liked more, and deeply regret selling my 490 / 500s

I love Maicos, but don't eulogize them to the extent that some do. Great bikes, that have some how managed to be still produced.

What I, and I think, a fair few people are getting a bit tired of is the regular announcements by Maico International, without any real, tangible proof of the great leaps forward they are announcing / claiming. It so reminiscent of the old Italian ' new model' announcements of the 70s and 80s, it's not funny. Mind you , TM revisited this with their announcing their 2t EFI bikes last year, with no subsequent showing of them, or further news.......

2010s, I see a 86 Maico, updated, with beautiful alloy swingarm, nice alloy tank (but why the hell isn't it slammed down to the cases , to give a real benefit?) and some updates . Great stuff, and I'm sure a great bike, that I'd like to have. But not a innovative motorcycle.

I REALLY do hope we see these new (all new?) Maicos, with their super secret shock, super secret FI, with all the changes / new bits designed etc by some F1 / FI genius.

Some have raised the point of how marketing / sales / promotion has changed so much with the internet etc. I see that sort of leakage / teasing of news all the time, but eventually, you have to show people what you are touting / boasting about.

Please, it's about time we were actually shown some of these new Maico 2011s, and the coming innovations. I doubt it would lead to Maico International being gazumped by someone else, stealing their ideas etc.

I guess I sound negative here, but I really want the new Maicos of Maico International to succeed - the sooner they show what they have coming, the sooner they have a chance of people saying, "I've got to have that bike". A modern 380cc 2t is what I WILL spend money on, and I'd much prefer to spend it on a Maico than Any other brand!
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: bearorso on December 05, 2010, 07:56:33 AM
This is the format of tha alloy tank I've I described above - bad picture, but the sort of tank I make for CR500s (it's off an unlinished / polished test tank):


(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t319/bearorso/LHDropsideofAlloytank.jpg)


Basically , to emulate ( but on the opposite side - 500 Hondas of that era were mirror image motors) the works Hondas - I can't seem to come up with anything but a thumb nail pic:


(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t319/bearorso/DaveThorpes86HRC500-1.jpg)

And here's a 4t Maico, that was rather trick - circa '82:

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t319/bearorso/MaicoFSLHfrontmidsize-2.jpg)

I've got quite a few pics of this bike...........

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 05, 2010, 08:28:39 AM
Bearorso, I hear what you are saying but the problem with the last of the Maisch Maicos is that the design was so fundamentally sound that even updated versions are what I prefer to ride verses much more modern offroad bikes. I have ridden Gas Gas and TM 300s extensively ,for example.and have found my 380,antique that it is,vastly more powerful yet EASIER to ride. For me the steering response of the Maico chassis is perfection, I have found none better. I'm almost 6 and a half feet tall and the Maico is one of the few bikes that is comfortable for me.

The task that lies before Maico International, and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes,is to somehow move the Maisch design into the 21st century with something that is demonstrateably better yet still intrinsically Maico.I've sometimes thought that somebody should comb all the old folks homes in Germany and find all the old Maico employees that are still alive,stick them under one roof and get one last great design out of them.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: TMKIWI on December 05, 2010, 11:40:39 AM

What I, and I think, a fair few people are getting a bit tired of is the regular announcements by Maico International, without any real, tangible proof of the great leaps forward they are announcing / claiming.

Same here.
I do wish them well and understand they have had problems with US customs BUT,
Why havnt we seen anything more then pictures ?
I would have thought they would have put a couple of bikes in 1 of the 4 2 Stroke champs that are running in the UK.
I would get more excited seeing a video of a Maico mixing it up with KTM's/TM's/RM's etc.
They don't even have to win, just be visable at 'A' track.
I am a bit thick skinned when it comes to marketing BS and the "trick F1 bits" sounds like marketing to me.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: wintrader on December 05, 2010, 12:10:49 PM
My brother in law runs a workshop where he prepares classic ferrari's for classic races. He knows all about 4 strokes but he does not know anything about 2 strokes. So who says those f1 guys know anything about 2 strokes?

One of my brothers clients is adrian Newey who designs formula one cars. Can ask my brother to ask him if he knows anything about 2 strokes. But i guess he does not know.

F1 guys does not automatically means they know about 2 strokes.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 05, 2010, 12:35:43 PM
They did run in a few races in UK and Belguim.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/07/belgium-international-maico-cup/ (http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/07/belgium-international-maico-cup/)

They have released some details of the F1 engine below:

http://www.tillamooksingletrackmagazine.com/Articles/Generic/index.php?id=203 (http://www.tillamooksingletrackmagazine.com/Articles/Generic/index.php?id=203)

Whatcha talking about willis?
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: TMKIWI on December 05, 2010, 03:31:10 PM
They did run in a few races in UK and Belguim.

Whatcha talking about willis?

Against other Maico's  :(
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JETZcorp on December 05, 2010, 04:49:28 PM
The idea behind claiming "F1 technology" is that they presumably know a lot about high-performance engines in general.  I would expect that to come in handy for the actual mechanical bits of the engine, getting the moving parts to be as light and balanced as possible, yet still sustain the riggers of high-rev operation.  Of course I think it'd be silly to think there will be any kind of real resemblance to an F1 engine in the new Maicos.  Yamaha were claiming that when they introduced the YZ400F and other than the fact that both engines had one or more pistons moving up and down, there was really no resemblance.  But that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't use someone with F1 experience to contribute to some of the component design.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JohnN on December 05, 2010, 05:13:46 PM
I guess I'm at a loss... you guys seem to think that there is something wrong with Maico International. I suggest you take a look at the press release section of Racer X.... lot's of companies release information on a regular basis... so what?

At the beginning of 2010 Maico International released their bikes. There were photos of the bikes and videos.

Is it possible that the 2011 could be released about that time?

But what do I know, I only talk directly with the people that know whats happening.....
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: opfermanmotors on December 05, 2010, 05:28:36 PM
Neil Berry took a fourth place overall in the O.R.P.A. British two day Championship
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: Bioflex on December 05, 2010, 06:15:58 PM
The problem, John is that many of us (who actually run successful businesses) get a little tired of endless teasers with not a lot to show for it.
I have been checking the Maico website everyday without fail for the past 8 months, having seen the site change to the "A new era has dawned" to the "NEW MMX coming soon", I do wonder when it will happen. They have probably shot themselves in the foot a little by announcing there will be a new bike so early, as people assume a standard time line for when an announcement is made and when the actual product is seen.

While I am in a completely different industry, I know my customers get quite frustrated when there is even a few weeks time between when a new product is announced and when it is available. Obviously with motorbikes that timeline would be extended but it's clear the masses here (including myself) are growing tired of hearing the teasers from Maico without seeing the result.

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: bearorso on December 06, 2010, 08:11:54 AM
Bioflex, perfectly put!

The Tillamook posting, unless I  missed something, is just another example of what I'm saying - words from the producer, no pics.

As I said, I'm one of the people Very Interested in actually buying a new, modern Maico.

But word only press releases don't cut it. I want to see if what is being written about, actually exists. And then have an unbiased opinion from someone other than their own riders. TMX is still weekly? Get this / these new versions out and about.

I'd take a 380/400/440 Maico, in a modern frame.  But I'd prefer a modern version of a 2t with those sorts of capacities - 400 preferably. I know how Maicos handle, I've owned , ridden and raced them and whilst good, it isn't that legendary to me ( I await the cries of heresy). Bloody Hell, the linkage / leverage ratio on the 86s was outdated even then , and I've seen bugger all change in the linkage right through to the 2010 model. It's the twin shock bikes that made the Maico legend.

John - if you talk to Maico International all the time, please let them know that blokes who want to know about their bikes, who will buy them , IF they are good enough and all that they are claiming, want to have more than regular 'PR' type blurbs. It's a reasonable request, and I doubt that anything they show will cause other companies to steal their ideas. If they have innovative new products, that will, at the least, finally get 2ts out of this fase lock they are in, they Will succeed, as there are many riders just waiting for a genuine, modern 2t.

I'd love to see them get a modern 2t out before the other factories, like KTM.


I wish Maico International well, they obviously have / are putting their hearts and souls, not to mention their money, into something they love, but it's time to start to show what they are writing about.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 06, 2010, 08:57:36 AM
What's outdated about the geometry of a Maico rear suspension? Super cross bikes have a low "ramp up" in the linkage to prevent "packing" on the face of a jump but this translates to harsh suspension offroad.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: JohnN on December 06, 2010, 01:51:40 PM
Quote
John - if you talk to Maico International all the time, please let them know that blokes who want to know about their bikes, who will buy them , IF they are good enough and all that they are claiming, want to have more than regular 'PR' type blurbs. It's a reasonable request, and I doubt that anything they show will cause other companies to steal their ideas. If they have innovative new products, that will, at the least, finally get 2ts out of this fase lock they are in, they Will succeed, as there are many riders just waiting for a genuine, modern 2t.

The folks over at Maico International drop in here every once and a while to check up on things. They are well aware of the questions that folks have about the bikes. They have a plan and are sticking to it...

Here is something that was posted on their site...

Quote
As many speculate as to the timing of the release of the new M.M.X. The British Manufacturers rather more traditional approach of releasing a 2011 bike for 2011 is really quite simple: Maico Internationals Lesley White lifts the lid on the approach they have adopted.

Every year manufacturers battle against each other to release bikes earlier and earlier desperate to gain interest and a possible market share before the others, a prime example of this is that 2011 bikes were available in the U.K. back in July, the knock on effect of this is felt by the hard working distributors and dealers who can easily be holding thousands of pounds/dollars/euros of current stock only to be told, next yearsâ?? bike will be here next week effectively leaving them saddled with what appears to be last yearsâ?? bikes which will almost certainly have to be sold at a loss!

Dealers and distributors along with the motocross buying public work hard for their money and at the end of any given year can be attempting to sell a bike which could be eighteen months old thus devaluing the second hand market as although their bike may be only eighteen months old it may well appear far more outdated as the following years machine will almost certainly be available! Is this the way to treat the dealers, distributors and hard working members of the public?

We donâ??t think so!

This general approach to the release of next yearsâ?? models has had is effects on all areas of the industry, clothing manufacturers are now following the trend, well if youâ??ve got next yearsâ?? bike in August surely you want next yearsâ?? kit to go with it? The sad thing is that by time next year arrives it all looks a little less shiny and as you creep into the garage to have a look at your 2011 bike on New Yearsâ?? Eve the battle scars may already be starting to show before we have reached the year it was meant to have been manufactured for.

More news on the 2011 models and our strategy very soon.

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: MMS on December 07, 2010, 12:35:27 AM
Seems people have become so familiar with the ridiculous that common sense appears somehow slightly odd!

Put aside all conception of what is the "done thing" and releasing a 2011 model in January 2011 seems about right.

Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: Bioflex on December 07, 2010, 06:24:06 AM
I don't see that anyone has an issue with them releasing the bike in 2011.

The issue is with the endless press releasers or teasers, without a picture and specs of the actual bike.
If the bike is set to debut within a month or so (which will be early 2011), surely it's best to whet our appetites by showing some pictures, yes, I mean of the whole bike - not just bits of a swing arm and tank.

If the bike hasn't been completed yet and thoroughly tested it may well be mid 2011 before we see it. If it is much further advanced, then show us some pics Mr Maico!

It should be made clear, that the frustration here is coming from people who are passionate about 2 strokes, Maico's in particular and absolutely want to see it succeed. I'd love to put my dollars down as soon as they come out assuming they are as good as we all hope.

 
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: bearorso on December 07, 2010, 11:35:10 PM
Once again , Bioflex, perfectly, and plainly put.
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: ford832 on December 08, 2010, 05:20:02 PM
What's outdated about the geometry of a Maico rear suspension?

There's nothing outdated about the geometry of the Maico rear suspension-just something outdated about the riders who ride the older ones :D

I wasn't aware 2010 Maico race vid's existed.Where does one find them?
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: SachsGS on December 08, 2010, 06:44:45 PM
The 2010 Maico race vid's are located in the drawer labeled "World's finest competition motorcycle".You'll find the Yamaha vid's mixed in with the Pee Wee Herman vid's in the large soup can at the exit. ;D
Title: Re: A peek into the future... Maico 125 for 2012!
Post by: TMKIWI on December 08, 2010, 08:39:02 PM
Seriously I would like to see some of those vid's.