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Offline JohnN

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What about Independent Dirt Bike tests??
« on: December 14, 2009, 03:46:31 AM »
This is something that has some real value to every single person who rides dirt bikes. Right now it's difficult to tell if the magazines or web sites can test bikes without bias shown to the manufacturers that spend thousands in advertising with them and give them free stuff and bikes.

Some thoughts and ideas about the Independent Testing of dirt bikes.

What if was a selection of riders along with their bios as the testers?

How about comparing the bike side-by-side with it's competition? No testing a bike in a vacuum or spreading them out all throughout the year.

How about using video to compare one to the other? Not just a fluff piece showing how cool one bike is without stacking it up against real competition. But show the bikes in a start situation with a real gate and switching riders on different brands. Would this help to give a better impression of which bike did what?

Obviously the logistics of this could be challenging. Why? Well in order to test without any bias we would have to borrow or rent the bikes for testing. We would have to get these new (newer?) machines all in one place a few separate times to do a thorough job of testing.

Would you want a one day riding impression or something a bit more in depth?

Do you want allow some small modifications to the bikes of obvious faults (like grips, tires,etc..) that most racers would change before they rode?

Then there is the case of money to perform the test. Possibly the rental costs of the bikes. The rental fee for the track or paying the practice fees for those involved. Some food for the testers. A video shooter and a photographer. Fuel for all the bikes. And probably some other expenses that don't come readily to mind.

This has been the biggest stumbling block to getting this off the ground, until one of our members came up with an idea worth pursuing. Here is a quote from a post from JETZcorp:

Quote
Maybe it could be us as a collective.  There could be a sort of drive where we draw out a plan to create such a test, make up a budget and start taking down names.  People volunteer to donate however much money they want to contribute to the test.  When one signs up, he/she is committed to donate the amount of money they say to, if and only if the target amount gets promised.

Let's say we need $2000 to make it work (I have no idea) and I'm going to promise $50.  I could say I'm going to do that now, and not pay a cent.  Then, once the "promise balance" or whatever reaches $2000, we know that the drive was a success and everyone pays.  If $2000 isn't reached, there's no wasted money.  We could also go around, talk to dudes at races, make posts on other forums and such to help spread the word for the idea of an unbiased shootout with independent, unaffiliated test riders.  What do you guys think?

What do you guys think? would this be something that you would want to see? Would you be willing to pay a small fee to see it happen?

Just as I wrote the last line I thought about the whole money thing. To do this right there would have to be a full disclosed accounting. How much money was brought in and the cost of all expenses. Would this be fair? Do you think folks would be more likely to donate to the tests if they knew how the money was spent?

Let's hear some feedback, additional ideas or criticism about whether you think this would work or not.
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Re: What about Independent Dirt Bike tests??
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 08:47:02 AM »
I like the idea. Logistically, it will require some serious organization. I would think there would need to be a protocol of some sort for selecting test riders. Also, all of us love motocross, but many just do not race anymore, or are racing very little and spending more time in the woods. I've always ridden MX bikes in the woods so it would be nice to see how all these bikes perform in the woods as well.

Which goes to your point of more in depth testing. Guys spending 20 minutes or even an hour on a bike, especially if they are used to a certain brand or country of origin.

I'm all for small mods, which would include getting the tune up right, and maybe even trying different reeds, gearing etc.

My biggest concern would be suspension. We American riders tend to favor stiffer spring rates than the europeans do. The japanese are better at spec'ing spring rates, and even they miss sometimes. I bring this up because for some reason, the Maico comes notoriously undersprung and underdamped. I assume if you are using a Service Honda bike they will have corrected this. It would require whoever supplies bikes would consider these things and fix it BEFORE the test happens. And...it would be nice to get a 500 and a 620. from what I understand, the 620 is like a 490 on steroids!! The 685 gets all the love just because it's just big. I, personally don't care for  slow revving, tractor like power. That being said, if you had a 500, 620 and 685 to test with the CR and KX 500's it would be better.

Just random thoughts.... :-\

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: What about Independent Dirt Bike tests??
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 03:30:19 PM »
And just for nostalgia's sake, I think a 490 Sand Spider or Mega II would be a great "control" bike.  If nothing else, it would be fun to see a ye olde style bike in the mix.  I'm sure it would add to the cost and would probably be something we'd include only if we received enough donations, but it would be fun.  And with the independent testers, I'd like to see something besides how 490 vs X tests go:

"Nobody really expected the 490 to be better.  We just wanted to see how far we've come.  X would totally destroy it on a track.  That said the 490 had better power, took small bumps better, and turned exactly where you wanted it to at all times.  It's obvious that X is better because it's got better foot-pegs and isn't as loud."

That's an exaggeration, of course, but it'd be nice to have the test written by someone who isn't writing from a "look how primitive this old POS is" position.  Again, it's just something to include if we have some extra money.


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline evo550

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Re: What about Independent Dirt Bike tests??
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 04:15:43 AM »
Australasian Dirt Bike did such a test a few years ago, between a Mega 2 and a KTM 450 sx titled "How far have we come in 25 years"

The mega 2 didn't win much......except drags to the first turn.

The young hotshot factory KTM pilot was duly impressed with the Maico motor.......and duly depressed with the front brakes ;D

Offline JohnN

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Re: What about Independent Dirt Bike tests??
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 11:24:09 AM »
Life is short.

Smile while you still have teeth!