Interesting 2 strokes are dead post on snowmobiles back in 05

[miedosoracing]

as we all know, the snowmobile industry have really started pushing new 2 strokes again.  http://cs.amsnow.com/snocs/forums/p/512/5343.aspx?PageIndex=2

[miedosoracing]

Versus a new post. Still some people from both sides, but I don't see a "2 strokes are dead" yet. Oops,k correction, the last guy goes there.

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=477006

[2smoker]

I live in Canada.. 2 stroke sleds are big here.. with the snocross racing everything is 2 stroke except for yami. No worries for this segment. Sled people like their 2 stroke way much than we do. and the yami is a pig.. so much heavier..

[TMKIWI]

Interesting reading. I don't know alot about sleds except that they have engines 
Did not know that the sled guys have been arguing about the same thing we have been.
The one thing that gets my goat up about the 2 v 4 debate is every 4 stroke fan forgets to mention that his motor is BIGGER!!!! Both in sleds & MX.
Can't they get into their thick heads that their motor has more power ONLY by being BIGGER.
Throughout history motorsport classes were dictated by displacement.
Now that the powers that be have throwin that out the window , every 4 stroke nut is comparing his cheater motor to a SMALLER 2 stroke. The guy comparing a 700cc 4/s raptor to an old 350cc 2/s banshee is missing the point.
Yamaha did not upgrade the Banshee for years and by the end was very outdated. The chassis was the main problem not the engine.

Fact: cc for cc a normally aspirated 4 stroke will never make as much torque as a 2 stroke.
So stop saying your 4 stroke sled/bike has more torque.

Sorry thats my rant for the day.

[maicoman009]

Hey TMKIWI I liked your rant for the day !!! And I have to agree with it 100%.I to am also so SICK & TIRED of hearing the 4-choke fags say things like:4-strokes are more reliable than the 2-strokes-4-strokes are alot faster & have more torque than the 2-strokes,and all of the other similiar BULLSHIT that the 4-stroke lovers say! I would just like to say to those 4-choke lovers "Line your 250cc.or 450cc. 4-choke up against a modern 2-stroke like a KTM-250sx or one of the 320cc.500cc.620cc.or the monsterous 700cc.MAICO MMX or MMX-E 2-strokes and lets have a flat out drag race on the dirt?!You know cc. per cc.'s?Make it fair for both bikes and quit using piss poor excuses! I would really like to see Dirt Bike or Motocross Action do a test like that and make sure that the test is unbiased.If any of the major publications out there read this post,I say to them,"LET'S GET'R DONE!!!"

[TMKIWI]

Hey maicoman.
I had a customer walk through the door yesterday and wanted to know if the new etecs had as much power as his 4 stroke.
I showed him all the POS material with horsepower graphs etc and he was not convinced. Said that any manufactor can make nice charts etc.
The thing is that the manufactors through the media have fooled some of the population into believeing all the hype.
As the old saying goes: If you tell a lie enough times , it becomes true.

I did manage to convince him in the end i was telling the truth, but i should not have too.
How can people make an informed decision when manufactors feed them lies.
There is a place for 4 strokes in the world and thats doing the boring jobs. etec ad.
Thats what got me going.

I like your idea, would love to see it happen.
 

[maicoman009]

That sounds like a pretty cool E-Tec ad TMKiwi.I've always liked the E-Tec engines,I've never owned one myself but if I ever get caught up on some of the bills,loans,etc.I just may own one of their sweeet E-Tec outboard engines on a nice bass boat !

[Turquine]

My sentiments exactly, TMKIWI and Maicoman. It's a pity the sheeple are so easily brainwashed as to overlook the obvious. CC per CC, the 4stroke has no chance against the 2stroke, period! Not in horsepower or torque!

[miedosoracing]

The other problem with their arguments, are that at the cc's given to the 2 strokes, of course they are low on torque at low rpm's.  They are forced to run smaller cc's so the old saying, you can have top end or low end, but not both.  Well, if they let a 400cc 2 stroke race against a 450F.  It would be no contest. It would have torque and they wouldn't have to mod it all out for top end. So the power curves would be very similar if the ability to run a proper cc machine.  I wish a company would make a 400cc 2 stroke, electric start, balanced motor so their is no vibration and Direct injection.  That bike would smoke any lap times anywhere.  It would be the perfect bike. No complaints about no low end, no complaints about no top end, no complaints about vibration, no complaints about jetting, no complaints about starting.  Oh, and it would still be lighter than these pigs out there today, and last twice as long.  Edited: Scratch that, it would last 4 times as long.