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Offline TMKIWI

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MX2 problems
« on: December 13, 2012, 07:06:05 AM »
I posted this in another thread but think it deserves it own thread.

One of the biggest developmental shifts we?ve seen over the past few months is the amount of Australian factory motocross teams either downsizing or slashing their MX2 race programs.

And

There?s too much pressure and money involved with developing the 250Fs; you need to spend a lot of money to get the horsepower gains and the parts budget we burn through is almost double that of the 450s.

When the top teams are ditching their mx2 teams because of costs, there is something wrong with the sport.
The same thing is happening here.
The "feeder" class should not be more expensive then the "main" class.

Full story.

http://www.motoonline.com.au/2012/12/13/the-point-factory-mx2-teams/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline Jeram

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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2012, 07:19:17 AM »
Can't work out why they don't just make mx2 250 two strokes and mx1 450 four strokes... Would make so much sence
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline evo550

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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 10:22:45 AM »
Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki race bikes they no longer produce? and Yamaha on it's second teir race bike and it's 250 f's rotting on the show room floor !! Oh dear what a mess.
Can't work out why they don't just make mx2 250 two strokes and mx1 450 four strokes... Would make so much sence
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline msambuco

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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 01:45:15 PM »
Can't work out why they don't just make mx2 250 two strokes and mx1 450 four strokes... Would make so much sence

Then we would effectively have a 250 and open class. A kid would go from an 85 to a 250? Your suggstion actually makes perfect sense. Just add in a 125 class. They could even limit 2 stroke size in the open class or make it 4 stroke only and I don't think anyone would even care. Factorys could sell 65,85,125,250 2 strokes and 250,350,450 four strokes and be successful and have brand loyalty. Oh wait, KTM already does that. Did they see this coming?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
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Offline _X_

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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 10:35:08 PM »
we will most likely see alot more two-stroke nationals in the near future. so i take this as good news.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline bearorso

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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 05:39:55 PM »
Can't work out why they don't just make mx2 250 two strokes and mx1 450 four strokes... Would make so much sence

No, that sort of BS is not what we need.

Just:

125cc Class

250cc Class

Open Class

No concessions to Any type of engine. Open class - basically so I'm not seen to be favouring anything. The 500 class, Always had various sized engines used in it. In the GPs, even when "500"s had become the norm., there were a lot of bikes with smaller capacities . Maxiumum power, that can be used on the dirt, is not a problem with say, 350+cc engines, of Any type. It's the power delivery / engine weight / size and feel, that becomes to variable / preferential thing for riders And Factories.

A Simple, 3 Class System, like we had before things turned to hell, is All that is needed.

The MX2 / 250 class being more costly to compete in?

It's always been the case - in "real life" and even "Factory Team" scenarios. Unless, of course, when it was HRC putting so much into the 500cc MX GPs, with their RC500s. And Yamaha with the 87 / 88 OWs.

500 2ts, for the average rider, and even highly skilled, competitive at high level riders ( look at the last years ( well, most years) of the 500cc MX class in the US (and even GPs, with the 2ts still around), '500s' were 'relatively' cheap to run. I remember a Dirt Bike magazine comparo between Bartolinis Husaberg 500 (whatever size it was - he was the holeshot King in 500 GPs - well, he and his brother were) and Lamsons CR500. Lamson being a non factory rider, at the time. The CR500 was said to still be on it's std piston, even after most of a season, of Nationals and numerous other races. In the US, you had blokes like Gene Naumec (sp?) in the top 5.

Same thing for the 450 class, basically. It's mostly moving power 'around', to suite the rider. It's easy to get more HP out of a 450, but, you don't Need much more. It's about usability, and rider prefference.

But, without a doubt, 250 4ts, REALLY make things expensive, when you are 'keeping up with the Jones'', be it at club , or National level. Just like it was with 125s - but Far More damaging to your wallet.

It's why that young Kiwis' (Bastards ><img src=" title="Angry" class="smiley"> :-*  :D- Enslave NZ Now! [you've Got to see that video], I say) family, and a few others,  raced a 250 2t, to win the OZ 'D' / 19yr old ?? class, this year. I'm amazed that DK is allowed by Yamaha, to race the YZ 250. Perhaps, they are outselling the YZF, over the ditch?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline TMKIWI

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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 10:22:15 PM »
I'm amazed that DK is allowed by Yamaha, to race the YZ 250. Perhaps, they are outselling the YZF, over the ditch?

Nope. My local dealer hasn't sold a YZ in 2 years. :-[  He has sold plenty of YZF's tho. :<img src=" title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">
It's amazing how naive the kids are.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 10:27:52 PM »
I'm amazed that DK is allowed by Yamaha, to race the YZ 250. Perhaps, they are outselling the YZF, over the ditch?

Nope. My local dealer hasn't sold a YZ in 2 years. :-[  He has sold plenty of YZF's tho. :<img src=" title="Roll Eyes" class="smiley">
It's amazing how naive the kids are.
Reminds me of my friend telling me that a 2012 ktm 250sx was to small of a bike >.<
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline TMKIWI

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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 10:31:47 PM »
I don't think the average 18 year old has been on a 2 stroke bigger then 85cc.
Most jump straight from 85 to 250F.
Big wheel 2 strokes are just too foreign to them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline bearorso

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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 10:45:00 PM »
" Big wheel 2 strokes are just too foreign to them".

You're right with that one TMKIWI.

A young bloke I worked with in 2010, whenhe was bitching about the cost of  trying to get his KXF competitive with the 'richer riders' / Team Riders, was stunned when I offered to put a KX250 2t engine in his frame, if he went out and got one.

He thought I was a madman - Never could a 250 2t be better than his 4t - that he was bitching about being too slow / expensive to run.

Dumber than a post?

Or just plain uninformed / ill-informed.

Take your pick, I guess.

I feel sorry for the youngsters nowadays.

Sure, modern 4ts Are great bikes, but there's another , very easy option, even if you have to make it yourself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Dirtsaw

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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 10:52:49 PM »
Sounds like your friend is about as "informed" as my nephew.  He insists his CRF150 will smoke my 125sx.  It's like talking to an environmentalist about how misinformed they are...  Pointless conversation.  Just have to prove it to them...
 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline TMKIWI

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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 11:01:02 PM »

Dumber than a post?

Or just plain uninformed / ill-informed.

Take your pick, I guess.


Yep, that is what I find.
Not their fault I suppose , just ill-informed.
I do try to explain to them the facts but you get the impression that they are thinking " Whats this old dude talking about ". ;D
Maybe I need a monster shirt and a flat bill. ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline Jeram

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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 03:41:05 AM »
no different to anything else in western society...

you are literally spoon fed shit from an early age by marketing giants who want you to make an ill informed purchase at their benefit and your loss (whether it be your health, wallet or well being or a combination).

In the age of Gen Y and even with Gen Z emerging I find it ironic how they feel they are so immune to advertising and marketing that it placed in front of them (TV/youtube adds, internet banners and pop ups, printed adverts etc), yet they are completely blind to the new marketing techniques which immerse them so deeply in the culture of a particular product that it just feels 'natural and right'.

Only way to beat em is to join em, and by that I mean emersing people into the culture of two strokes to show the positive attributes
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline twosmoke595

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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 04:00:29 AM »
no different to anything else in western society...

you are literally spoon fed shit from an early age by marketing giants who want you to make an ill informed purchase at their benefit and your loss (whether it be your health, wallet or well being or a combination). couldn't be more true sadly

In the age of Gen Y and even with Gen Z emerging I find it ironic how they feel they are so immune to advertising and marketing that it placed infront of them, yet they are completely blind to the new marketing techniques which immerse them so deeply in the culture of a particular product that it just feels 'natural and right'.

Only way to beat em is to join em, and by that I mean emersing people into the culture of two strokes to show the positive attributes
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Dirtsaw

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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 04:16:50 AM »
Well said Jeram.  The older one gets, the more he/she should be able to figure out that most everything you've ever been taught is a friggin lie to either get you to hand over your money or to bow to govt policy.  Free country?  Yeah, free to think what they have designed you to think.  Not free to live as you choose; peacefully...  Sad really...

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »