Friend's, American's Motocrosser's Lend me your ears

[kim wedding]

I was reading about tci performance build of a 250 yamaha on this site and about a early 70's husquvarna 250 rode by malcolm smith at a indian motorcycle site.The husky was a 8 speed and they said it would do 100 mph. Now my comment is looking at the number of honda  cr125's still racing it seem's safe to say people want to ride these bike's, flaws and all,but what would it take for a company to build a killer motor with a six speed transmission that fit in a 2007 frame or will a earlier honda motor fit in that frame such as 1996 motor. I see where others have put a 125 in a 250crf frame. Don't like this option frame dwarf's motor. How many other rider's think the 1993 steel frame is best or 2007 aluminum frame is best? Would love to see a test of the 2 frame's side by side both 125 and 250 honda cr's. I know what your thinking a old bike against a newer one. No i want the bike's to be new, motors, suspension even the plastic the same only difference is frame material. I know someone's gonna say they can't be identical perimeter frame on one and not the other. Gas tank's different too. Many other difference's also. Still would love to see it. How many riders think a 6 speed transmission is better than a 5 speed for a 125? How about for a 250 honda 2 stroke mx'er. Know of anyone ever doing this to a honda cr250. How about a modern mx'er 8 speed. Now the reason i asked the question's i asked and made the comment's i made, are tci performance is stepping outside the box to try and  improve a excellent machine.A very noble cause,but what technology out there has been over looked or forgot about. What technology is really a improvement and how much of an improvement. Me personally i would like a 1993 framed cr125 with the best component's on it and 2007 front and rear fenders sound's killer to me! How about you...     KIM

[Super Trucker]

Yeah there,s guys racing cr125,s because 02-07 handle great and  last forever. The 2000-01 is pretty good to.  The current pro,s and retired  did a survey on what is the best handling bike ever. The cr125 won easily, years from now the later cr,s will still have the best chassis. I would take a 87 over a 93 chassis, 90-97 had  great motors for back then, bad handling. It looks like my 06 motor would bolt up, in my 04.  A member on here installed a 90,s engine in his alum. frame, don,t remeber the year.  A 05-7 hp 34.9  96 hp 29.8, why would ya want 5 hp less, 96 trans. parts might be discontinued, along with cylinder,head,pv parts.

[Jeram]

Whats the purpose or your aim of spending time and money on this?

are you trying to shave tenths of a second off your already stellar lap times?
or are you an amature racer who's just looking for a fun project and a trick bike?

depending on your answer there are two distinct solutions.

IMO I dont think you could get much better than a late model TM125 (or a KTM or Jap bike) with a set of Alpina carbon matrix rims mated to carbon matrix hubs, combine that with carbon replica bodywork, trick forks and a trick shock you should have the fastest bike out there without doing much work to the engine or the frame with the exception of a custom pipe and a compression increase for expensive race gas.



the wheels are around 1600 USD which is pretty good value for money if you ask me.

[SachsGS]

If I'm not mistaken the early 8 speed Huskies were 4 X 2s, in other words, 4 speeds with a Hi Low selector box. I once raced a 7 speed Sachs 250 and, to this day, miss the quality and purposefulness of that motorcycle. Zundapps once had 10 speed 50cc ISDT racers. For motocross a 6 speed box I would think would be fine.

If I were to build a 125 special I would do everything humanly possible to direct inject the motorcycle, maybe a hybrid system ala Ossa. DI would reduce scavenging losses and really broaden the powerband of that little 125. Add to that the inherent weight advantage of a 125 and it would be time to kick some 250f butt. " title="Angry" class="smiley">

[kim wedding]

Thank's for answering back rider's. Love the rim's Jeram! I rode a 1987 honda cr125 Super trucker, it was killer so was the 1989 cr125 but the 1993 cr125 aside from a harsh fork was a monster handling bike and the motor ripped in my opinion, my 2007 cr125 handle's great, motor and 5 speed trannsmission suck's. Funny how some motor's just stand out against other motor's even if their less powerful than a motor of today. Wish some company would build a killer motor and 6 speed transmission for my 07 cr125. I know of some guy's wishing the same thing for their honda cr250's.  Seem's like a no brainer to me. Guy's with 04 thru 07 cr's would kill for a kick butt motor and transmission and won't the same motor fit in all those year of frame's.125 motor in a 125 frame, 250 motor in 250 frame. So here's hopeing for some one to start building red rocket's or if you prefer green or yellow one's or even some one off stuff!!!    KIM

[Super Trucker]

The 1st ride on my 06, everything stock but suspension stiffer springs. My 1st ride at a friday night track, for a sunday open ride. I passed  a rm450 who got a 2nd at the tripplecross race in 30a, I passed him  8 or 9 times in the corners.  The 06 has a strong motor, you just have to shift alot to keep it in the strong part of the mid.  I have stock gearing, will drop the gearing 1 tooth because the motor is strong enough  and I,m  170 or so in my birthdaysuit. The 5 speed has thicker gears than a 6 sd, the 5 speed is a stronger trans. There,s post on here of the converstions.  I,ll stick with the stronger trans. Get a pipe, then porting, bore carb,etc  the bike will just keep getting better.  I,ll put my 06 cr125 with a stock cylinder, pipe and rad valve against any 125 made.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

Your post is really comparing apples to oranges. First, the 8 speed Husky was never very popular. The 400 Cross was (properly geared) capable of carrying desert riders of the day (Malcolm, Morris, JN etc) across the flats in excess of 100 mph. Although on a (semi-modern) 125 you have about the same HP as that old Husky, you can only gear out so far before it just doesn't have the torque to carry it any further.

One thing to consider is "why did they go to aluminum frames anyway?" It wasn't to save weight. It was because aluminum frames are stiffer and thus isolates movement to the suspension. This helps the engineers in better designing suspensions and helps techs and riders in isolating movement to better set up the bike for competition. The drawback is that it causes more vibration to transfer to the rider and they lose some "feel" (if I recall, a certin top level rider hated it and changed from Honda to Suzuki because of it.)

When you get into the steel vs aluminum argument, you have to look at the developement of the SYSTEMS. Post-1993 probably was the best Honda's because they were at the end of the developement cycle. They had a little over 10 years to develope a steel frame to work with existing suspension technologies. Now, aluminum frames have had about that same amount of time and effort. Suspension technologies have also progressed even further making the best aluminum frame/modern suspension light years ahead of a steel frame/modern suspension (except for those that continued with steel developement i.e. KTM).

Personally, I think that you cannot do better than the current crop of 125's by mixing and matching parts from previous eras. You will spend a lot more money developing one than if you just purchase new. Depending on your location, your basic choices are Yamaha, KTM, TM, or Husqvarna. If you are an enduro rider, or would like to modify an enduro bike for MX and want electric start, you can add Husaberg. Some places can get the Suzuki, not the US though. Any of these bikes would be preferrable to cobbling one up yourself.

What your are proposing is admirable, and fun...but it will not be better.

[gpnewhouse7]

Kim have you ever thought that rather than messing with putting a steel frame on your cr or putting an older cr engine in it that a much better bike would be a your current cr frame with a KTM motor and yz sss suspension? To me that sounds like a dream bike due to how that takes the legendary handling of the cr along with the monster powerhouse of the KTM and the brilliant suspension of the yz.

[kim wedding]

Gpnewhouse7 I would love the bike you described,it's alway's better moving forward than back. Hope we inspire someone to build this bike! I don't want a old motor in my 07 frame, just a better motor and 6 speed transmisson and would prefer it to be  a swap my old motor out and drop the new one in. Kick the monster to life and ride. Sound's like a plan to me how about you? Now let's get the right people on the job and get these bike's for sale. I'm ready to buy one and ride.   KIM

[cnrcpla]

Hope we inspire someone to build this bike!

I'm inspired to build it. Can I have about $6,000 for the necessary components?  Just kidding, but there are some guys making some pretty cool bike concoctions, mostly KTM stuff though.

[kim wedding]

Cnrcpla, 6,000 dollar's is pretty reasonable sounding to me. I think it might cost a little more. Wish i knew some one on this site to mock up a computer image of the bike were talking about. A bike, i guess you would call it a cr for now but no longer a honda cr. What component's that are put on the bike are the best that's here right now ktm motor,yamaha sst fork's, maybe even the yamaha transmission if it can be made as good or better than the best transmission out now. Just the best part's for the money, and for me if i were dreaming what ever that is that make's a steel framed or aluminum framed honda cr125 handle the way a honda cr125 handles,the red plastic the 07 front and rear fender and you say for 6,000 dollar's. CNRCPLA if you can build that bike with a smart carb and a few other new technology for 6 or 7 maybe even dare i say it 8,000 dollar's your in the motorcycle business. Cnrcpla i'm going to bed so i can get to work tomorrow and ask my boss for overtime,so i can buy one of these bike's. You stay up and get started on the bike's.6000 dollar's sound good,very good. Is it to early to place an order?   KIM

[Jeram]

getting a bit off topic now arnt you?

anyhow, 1800 to 2500 for a motor?
you must be smoking crack mate!

Theres alot more to it that you think there is, unless there was a market for 10,000+ motors you wouldnt even get close to that price.

[_X_]

lets build a rocketship with a yankee motor and a titanium quad frame with three wheels and a bannana seat and a sissy bar and a tall orange flag. that would be cool.

[kim wedding]

I don't get it if honda,yamaha,kawasaki,suzuki,ktm and other's can build a 125 2-stroke for less than 7,000 dollar's why cant someone else?All the technology here.No i don't do crack and to suggest i do because i think a reasonable priced bike is possible is as mike tyson would say ludacrist.In the car market you can get pretty much any part o.e.m. or after market, how much easier is a 2-stroke dirt bike.We just need the right people to step up.Better than acussing people of being on crack.  KIM

[kim wedding]

Rider's, I love all the reply's i've gotten to my post. I still think a kick butt 125 2-stroke built by who ever should cost roughly the same as one built by the bike manufacturer's. I also understand the more trick the part's the more the money. I would still love a bike to buy with all the part's on it from day one, rather than buy a bike for 5,000 or 6,000 dollar's only to take a part off throw it in the corner and put the new part on. Waste of money,time and effort.The more i think about it the more i'm convinced it's possible to build a cost effective bike.All the bike manufacture's sell these bike's for a certain price and do you ever think how much of that price you pay is for thing's other than the cost of making the bike.Advertising, marketing,the price of the rider they hired to ride the bike, etc, etc, all of these add to the cost of the bike.Makes me wonder what the actual cost to make a bike really is?I also wonder why people act like it's impossible to build a bike for x amount of dollar's when other's have done it and make a profit. Super trucker you'r right a new cr125 isnt as bad as reported but there is room for improvement. I would love to buy a bike with the part's i want on it straight out of the gate. Here's an example i cut my handlebar's off on almost ever bike i've owned,and have to cut brand new grip's off the bike to do this, would'nt it be nice if i could order my bike done up the way i like from day one.The factory rider's get this done for them and if you think about it anyone who's bought a bike has paid for that factory rider's bike,salery, mechanic, etc, etc.I would love to pick even the shape,color and style of the plastic i buy,seem's funny that people make so many part's out of aluminum or carbon fiber that could be plastic.I mean as malluble as plastic is you still never see someone with custom shaped fender's,numberplate's unless they hack some off with a saw.Don't get me wrong i think the 04-07 honda cr's are the best looking bike's man has ever made and only a few thing's on these bike's need upgrading about the same for all brand's of bike's. Nom if you'r not ragging on me ignore the next line if you are ragging on me is it pixie dust you want to power you'r bike or is it fairy dust.  KIM