mxa used 125 build and 144 shootout

[motoman356]

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/HOW-TO-BUILD-A-LOWCOST-BUDGET-RACER-FOR-UNDER-THRE-9331.aspx

[xandyx]

i wish i could get such cheap bikes like that in my country!

even with all the mods, it's way cheaper than stock bikes over here.

[beaner]

That's a good way to go about it, but it sure looks to me like they spent more than they needed to on that 139 big bore. Add the pipe, reeds and silencer and they were into $1500 

[motoman356]

they did go way over budget and they mention they did. but they wanted to see what else could be done to it.

[Suzuki TS250/185]

I love how they, and all the magazines in fact, are obligated by their corporate sponsors to tell us that "The bike you can create this way still falls far short of a redhotrocketsuperjetthappyexcitingandneverfartydespitealltheevidence 250f-artbike, but downhill or with a tailwind it's OK we guess..."

Even in a magazine that will actually do a "Cool, Cheap used 2 Stroke" article, you can't break free of the rhetoric of the exhalted corporate sponsor, and it's butt-stinking fooper.

They'll do the 2 stroke article, but not without kissing some fooper ass in there as well. Jimmy Lewis broke with the formula for a little while at the end of his term as Editor... and low and behold all of a sudden he wasn't Editor anymore!

 

[motoman356]

no mags a pretty much right about even with a 144 kit its still slower than a 250f. now the gap is still there but its there. ive ridden and raced both over the  past ten years.

look at this way both bikes produce roughly 34-37 hp @ 11k rpms. but a 250 makes more in the low to mid range and thats where the extra speed comes from cuz you can carry more speed in turn with less effort. when you start modding bikes the KX250f puts down 45hp and the ktm 150 puts down 40hp.

the benefits of the 125 is lighter weight and its cheaper. the 125s are fast and its been proven that with a fast enough rider you can be competitive but its like fighting with a sword vs a gun. theres a reason why armies stopped using swords.

its just calling it like it is

[Sheriff]

no mags a pretty much right about even with a 144 kit its still slower than a 250f. now the gap is still there but its there. ive ridden and raced both over the  past ten years.

look at this way both bikes produce roughly 34-37 hp @ 11k rpms. but a 250 makes more in the low to mid range and thats where the extra speed comes from cuz you can carry more speed in turn with less effort. when you start modding bikes the KX250f puts down 45hp and the ktm 150 puts down 40hp.

the benefits of the 125 is lighter weight and its cheaper. the 125s are fast and its been proven that with a fast enough rider you can be competitive but its like fighting with a sword vs a gun. theres a reason why armies stopped using swords.

its just calling it like it is

Being right is not allowed here. Be prepared to get roosted for your comments!

[Super Trucker]

I agree with Suzuki, the mags are pro 4-st. I don,t think there,s been a pipe test for all 125 models since 2000. Now they,ll  test some 2-st. with some crappy mods, then say it,s  fun but can,t run down 250f,s. Yeah with there slow riders-no tallent on board, can,t beat  a 40 yr old expert on a 96 125. A  125 with a 2mm stroker crank and 2mm over borre, 40mm carb,etc. In the lowend when it hits, you get 20 lbs of torque quicker than you can blink, then in the super wide mid pull  23 foot lbs of torque is spread out. As with any powerband, there,s  a strong point if ridden in that window you get the maxium torque out of the engine. To ride in a 2,000 rpm window takes tallent, my engine has a super quick-violent hit  then let it pull .0001 of a second and shift as fast as you can.   At the hit a it will jump out front of a 250f and they can,t  pull the 04 cr125 144 in.

[motoman356]

on paper yes it looks great. but have you ever driven a rear wheel drive car with too  much power? it sends you flyin sideways into the cleachers. a 4t has more controllable power kinda like an awd.

[gpnewhouse7]

At the end of the day the 250f IS faster than a 125 (like for like) just the same as the 450f IS faster than the 250 smoker, if they werent then the pro's wouldn't race the fourstrokes. Double displacement (or there abouts for the 450 class) will make a bike faster, If they allowed a diesel to race the 125 class with a 500cc maximum displacement limit then diesels would win. Its a fact of life, there is no replacement for displacement.

I'm not saying that it is impossible for a 125 to beat a 250f or that a 250 cannot beat a 450f but that will only happen if the two stroke rider is a better rider. If Dungey had took a 250 sx out to the nationals then Villopoto would have kicked his ass.

Its sad but true the race engines have been made non competitive by allowing lawn mower engines to have double their displacement some of us on here need to leave their own little world and visit the real one for a while just until they understand that the pro's do race the fastest bikes that they are allowed to race in their specific class.

[TMKIWI]

its just calling it like it is

Yes it is.

Being right is not allowed here. Be prepared to get roosted for your comments!

He should be fine.

Its sad but true the race engines have been made non competitive by allowing lawn mower engines to have double their displacement some of us on here need to leave their own little world and visit the real one for a while just until they understand that the pro's do race the fastest bikes that they are allowed to race in their specific class.

Yes they do.

[luthier269]

My Real world is in the amatuer class at our local tracks. And most pros don't buy their bikes so most new bike sales come from amatuers.  With the displacment rule for amatuers 250 to 250 the switch started. Yesterday I went to the local track for practice there were more Two -strokes than Four strokes. I know personaly alot of parents that quit racing and riding because of blown up four strokes that were fairly new that blew and they could not afford to fix so they quit racing. Yesterday one of the top amatures and he is one of the top racers at Lorettas was praticing on a new husky 125 and passing everyone on the track. His dad said they can't break it . He also told me about there band new Crf250 the exploded the engine with 10hrs on it and needs a new engine these kind of things are ruining our sport. I Don't care what the pros ride its the amatuers that drive the market. Eventually the tide will turn and I think it is turning right now!

[gpnewhouse7]

My Real world is in the amatuer class at our local tracks. And most pros don't buy their bikes so most new bike sales come from amatuers.  With the displacment rule for amatuers 250 to 250 the switch started. Yesterday I went to the local track for practice there were more Two -strokes than Four strokes. I know personaly alot of parents that quit racing and riding because of blown up four strokes that were fairly new that blew and they could not afford to fix so they quit racing. Yesterday one of the top amatures and he is one of the top racers at Lorettas was praticing on a new husky 125 and passing everyone on the track. His dad said they can't break it . He also told me about there band new Crf250 the exploded the engine with 10hrs on it and needs a new engine these kind of things are ruining our sport. I Don't care what the pros ride its the amatuers that drive the market. Eventually the tide will turn and I think it is turning right now!

The article said that a 125/144 wasn't as FAST as a 250f. They never said that a 250f was more reliable or cheaper to run. Also here in England they either race as full open and classes are based on skill levels or they race 125/250f and 250/450f.

[luthier269]

Sorry I was up late last night. Here the run 250 2t to 250 4t and they go by skill level A classB class C class and beginer.  and 250 2t / 450 4t. By the way my grandmother is from Kiddiminster.

[factoryX]

Its sad but true the race engines have been made non competitive by allowing lawn mower engines to have double their displacement some of us on here need to leave their own little world and visit the real one for a while just until they understand that the pro's do race the fastest bikes that they are allowed to race in their specific class.

The works bikes the so called "Pros" ride are nothing compared to stock. MXA got a hold of Ryan Villopoto's works bike and they could barely ride the bastard.
http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/6e8727d8-08b6-4f67-bd04-56148a336b9d.aspx
Check out the list of works goodies as well.   So if they have trouble riding a 60hp works 450, then what exactly are people expecting from a 55-60hp works 250 2t?