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Author Topic: KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX  (Read 5571 times)

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Offline 2STROKEREVOLUTION

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« on: July 09, 2012, 09:06:30 PM »
So I went to the KTM demo day at Glen Helen yesterday. Test rode the 6 2013 MX bikes. I am an off-roader, not MX rider and not a racer, but i just wanted to ride some new KTMs and see how they felt compared to my old KTM 380s.

The bikes there were the 125SX, 150SX and 250SX 2-strokes and the 250SX-F, 350SX-F and 450SX-F 4-strokes. You get a punch card and get to ride each bikes once. After you have ridden each bike you get a bonus ride on one bike you want a second ride on.

I switched back and fourth 2-stroke to 4-stroke to compare. Quick review: The 250F was easiest to ride (obviously) as it was least powerful with smooth 4-stroke powerband and fairly low weight. It did not have enough snap to it though and could use a little more power in the hills at Glen Helen. The 125 was awesome. It had the snap the 250F didn't have. Nothing beats the feal of a 2-stroke on the pipe. The 125 was super light and fun. The low power of the 125 made it easy to wring its neck without getting tired, but still had that 2-stroke snap. The 150 was like a peaky 125 actually. It had more power but was all top end. I am sure a head mod or pipe would fix that quickly to make it a hod rod 125. The 350F was my favorite 4-stroke. It had the power missing from the 250F but not too much that it wanted to kill you like the 450 and didn't have the 450's weight. The 450, like I said, was too much weight and power for me on a MX track. It would probably be fine in the desert.
Lastly the 250SX. This is the bike (and the 125) that I came to ride. I did my bonus ride on the 250SX as well. I figured as it is 13 years newer than my 380 it would be nearing it in power output but with the newer chassis and suspension. Well, I was disappointed. It was peaky, much like you would expect from a 125. it had considerably more power, but was still peaky. This is worse because you have to keep it in the powerband to go but with that much power on tap it wears you out. There is no lugging it or going easy. It is all or nothing.

In conclusion, nothing matches the 380 engine. It lugs down low like a ported 300 and pulls strong through the mid range to the top end. It has power everywhere. It blows a 450 away in shear power everywhere, yet has so much torque you can take it easy and lug it around. The 250SX felt down 5-10hp compared to the 380.

I bet a 200 would improve on the awesome 125 with more low end. The 300 is the best KTM (other than the 380) that I have ridden, plentiful power from bottom to top, just without monstorous amounts like the 380.

If you want an engine with loads of power everywhere that can out pull a 450F or even a 500F yet is tame and controlled when you want it, the 380 is that engine. So KTM just needs a new 380, but with the low vibrations and quiet idle of the new bikes. And DI of course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Jeram

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 11:03:33 PM »
just buy a blown up katoom motor and chassis...

insert 380 motor...

=dream bike :)


those 380 motors have a lot of potential for more power too!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline SachsGS

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 05:42:58 AM »
I think Donny Elmer (FMF) once said 400cc is the perfect size for a 2T.I have a 380 Maico and it is very,very nice.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline maicoman009

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 04:46:57 PM »
I think Donny Elmer (FMF) once said 400cc is the perfect size for a 2T.I have a 380 Maico and it is very,very nice.
Hey Sachs,Do you have any idea why I'm not seeing any of the 380 Maico's on Koestlers website or Maico Internationals site?? If I could afford another bike in the near future I would want a Maico 380 as opposed to a 320 or 500... 8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline eprovenzano

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »
One of the locations I like to ride had a KTM demo day...  but I only sat on a new bike...  My shirt was soaked from the drool, but I know my wallet would suffer dearly if I tried o new 300 out.

So for now I just sit on them and make braap noises..  :(  :-[  ><img src=" title="Angry" class="smiley">
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline 2STROKEREVOLUTION

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 05:20:02 PM »
just buy a blown up katoom motor and chassis...

insert 380 motor...

=dream bike :)


those 380 motors have a lot of potential for more power too!

I would love that! There is a guy on KTMTalk that put a 380 motor in a 2011 350SX-F frame. Very beautiful bike!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline 2STROKEREVOLUTION

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 05:22:20 PM »
I think Donny Elmer (FMF) once said 400cc is the perfect size for a 2T.I have a 380 Maico and it is very,very nice.

I do remember hearing that. I think with todays modern tech 350cc would be plenty. The 380 is really a 368cc bike. So with 15 more years of engineering a 350 should blow it away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline SachsGS

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2012, 01:04:55 AM »
Apparently there were reliability issues with the Maico 380 motor that led to it being discontinued.I raced mine and did very well with the only problems being the plastic water pump impeller (KTM part - exchanged for a machined down alum. Husqvarna impeller) and a creeping hydraulic clutch (fatter slave cylinder O-ring). In hindsight I probably would have gone with the 320 as the 380 was overkill (too much power)for cross country racing in my area. The motor is a gem though,it makes power everywhere,is smooth and will easily run with any open bike.Another interesting thing is I had the bike stored at a friend's place and he was curious how the Maico compared weight wise to his Gas Gas and Husky WR 250s. To his amazement the 380 was lighter then either bike.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline rookie

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2012, 01:13:31 AM »
get the 250sx and put in a 300sx kit !!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Jeram

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2012, 04:17:39 AM »
I think Donny Elmer (FMF) once said 400cc is the perfect size for a 2T.I have a 380 Maico and it is very,very nice.

I do remember hearing that. I think with todays modern tech 350cc would be plenty. The 380 is really a 368cc bike. So with 15 more years of engineering a 350 should blow it away.

but remember since that bloke  made that statement, chassis, suspension and tires have also improved.

so as the power increases, so does the capability to handle all those extra ponnies.

so the statement might still be true :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2012, 09:12:50 AM »
To those of you that like having power everywhere on the bigger bore bikes, which FYI I totally understand, nothing nothing nothing and then BLAM on a 250 motocrosser is... unpleasant. But my question is do you still like the idea of peaky power on a 125? and I mean peaky as opposed to a 450 for example. So that it will get you to the high rev ranges quickly enough. Just curios.

Lastly the 250SX. This is the bike (and the 125) that I came to ride. I did my bonus ride on the 250SX as well. I figured as it is 13 years newer than my 380 it would be nearing it in power output but with the newer chassis and suspension. Well, I was disappointed. It was peaky, much like you would expect from a 125. it had considerably more power, but was still peaky. This is worse because you have to keep it in the powerband to go but with that much power on tap it wears you out. There is no lugging it or going easy. It is all or nothing.

Sounds like they went the wrong way there. 250s are tiring enough to ride when they have good power everywhere, they've got bollocks power on tap. But one that was all top end? Silly. One of the biggest advantages a 450 has on a two stroke is being able to get to overrev in no time flat. But if you drop the ball on a peaky 250, you've got to take teh time to downshift and wait for the revs to get high again depending on how bit the mistake was. Don't get me wrong alot of the 250s had great bottom and mid for two strokes. But thats the thing, for two strokes. 450s not only have a massive power advantage but get to that massive power advantage ALOT quicker.

Add extremely tiring to the list of hardships and in a four stroke dominated world thats a bad thing unfortunately.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline nom de guerre

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2012, 01:20:18 PM »
@ Stu.... I love the all or nothing power of a top end powerband with a 125 set up as such for moto
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline yota

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2012, 05:25:26 PM »
I have a 12 250sx and don't find it to be at all peaky.  has fair low, great mid and nice over rev.  of course I have it jetted right and put in the red power valve spring.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Jeram

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2012, 02:20:00 AM »
PV spring makes a big difference  doesnt it :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Swimr2DaResQ

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KTM Demo Day vs KTM 380SX
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2012, 09:48:39 AM »
@ YOTA: Your 250 looks awesome!! Did you swap the rear shock for an Ohlins? It also looks like you swapped out the forks too, Showa's? If so, How does this setup compare to the OEM WP suspension?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
"Technology frightens me to death. It's designed by engineers to impress other engineers, and they always come with instruction booklets that are written by engineers for other engineers - which is why almost no technology ever works."