need help, lets hear it!!!

[westsiderippa]

well, where do i start? how about with im fed up with 4t's. lol....

seriously though here is my situation. the 2010 race season is starting for me witch includes mainly OTHG Vet mx, ama arean x, i know i know....... local bay area races i.e cmc, amp etc... and i will be attending a few lorreta qualifiers this season in hopes to make a regional. most of my classes are age group depending on promoter i.e. 25+ 30+ and the occasional 450 open and or 450 INT. so being that i am a mainly age group/vet rider there are no displacement rules, its all open. hence the reason i went to a 450 when i turned 30. so here is where im at, my 07 crf 450 is a granade with the pin out right now. it has close to 200 hrs on it and im just not willing to dump the 2 g's into it to keep it rolling for 2010. i recently sold my 07 cr 250 to buy my girlfriend a RING, lol, had to do it. i have my 01 cr 250 that might need to go bye bye to fund racing and a new bike. im not willing to spend the coin on an AF 500 and really want to go 2t. 8/10 guys that ride any vet race are on a 450. i raced a few events last year on my cr250 and can tell you first hand that displacement sucks. tracks like glen helen, hangtown, honey lake etc.. a 450 will eat up a 250 and thats just common sense. so i just dont know what to do. i want to man up and go full time 2t but at the int level and having to race against 450's i will never see a podium. so this is where i ask myself why? why do i even do this? is it for fun? or is it to win? well im at a point where i want to answer yes to both and i have a new reason, to prove a point. to prove that the 2t can hang with the 4turds.

so here is how im breaking this down in my head. 1 i need a new bike 2010 2. i am bored with the 450 and want to race 2t. 3. if i choose to i can ride the 250 class but will still be at disadvantage in the vet class. 4. i tired of having multiple bikes and paying to maintain them all. 5. im sick of adjusting valves, lol.

so what do you all think of my situation? im just looking for other opinions from current racers. i know what a 2t is all about i ride and own them but is it worth it to handicap myself. its not cheap to race and the feel of winning is sort of payback.

so.. im thinking yz250 ktm 250sx. im leaning toward the yz because my mechanic i ride for is a master of that bike and the cost of parts will be cheaper and more readilly available.

help me get my head on striaght here.

[Hondacrrider]

ok, my opinion, get the yz 250, sell all your other bikes, this bike can be used for woods and track, you just need to swap some stuff every time you switch. Race the 250 class as your primary class, and every once in a while, when you feel you have the balls, go into a 450 race, and give it everything you have. You will bring home some hardware in the 250 class, but be able to challenge yourself in the 450, if your in the 450 class with a 250 two stroke, you will be always pushing yourself to go faster, when it comes time to race the 250f's you will destroy them

[rooster]

  OK westsiderippa, I am a little older than you but race in the same area you do so I can relate.  I ride the OTHG also, (Reno Chapter)  I am 65 years old and compete in the 52+ class.  I ride  a  2004 RM125.  No big bore kit, just tuning and pipe...I ran Hangtown OTHG National with 33 guys in my class (Mar 09) and finish 4th overall......against 90% 450f's.  I raced Fernley othg national with 19 guys in my class (May 09) and was 1st OVERALL winning 2 of the 4 motos.  My point is, don't sell yourself short because you are competing on a 2 stroke and think you must make up "something" somewhere.  I think of all the positives when I go the line about my tiddler and when the other guys look at me on the line I SMILE BIG.  When the moto is over, sooner or later they all make it by my pit area to check out the old man on the little 2 stroke.....................WHO NEEDS A TROPHY AFTER THAT??  I got my reward.....rider/racer acknowledgment for my competition.......   If we don't ride two strokes at the local races, club races, and every national event we are able to attend, then we are part of the problem, not the solution......I love riding my 2 strokes and wll never fall to the dark side.......................buy the YZ250, you will be the envy or your riding buddies and the guy they are talking about at the races..........Rooster

[westsiderippa]

well put rooster, i like your style and understand your point. like my signature says, win on a 2stroke your a hero if you lose just blame the bike, lol. ill keep an eye out for you at the nationals this year. if im on a yz i wont be hard to find in the 30 int.

[evo550]

Westside,
I race a KTM 250sx in 40+ Vets class here in Australia and prefer it to my '06 yz 250 I had previously.
For me it has more factory options with "Go Fast Bits" with KTM Hardparts and I love the tunable powervalve springs and hydrolic clutch as standard.
Not sure about your class system there, but the 300 might be an even better option, two stroke with electric start...........what else does a man need
I'm currently thinking about fitting a 300 kit to mine. Giddeyup !!!!!

[MXLord327]

Look into some of the 285 kits for the YZ250 as well.  With some tuning you should be right about in the same HP and torque range of the 450's.  I thought about one for my YZ250, but in the 40+ C class, I really don't need the extra power, just more seat time!!!  ~Russ

[Cable Stretcher]

West,

You don't need to alter the displacement of a 2t 250 to hang with the 450's.  If you keep it stock displacement you will still be able to compete in the 250 class as well.  Last weekend at a local track there was a guy on a bone stock brand new yz250 and he was whooping up on some pro riders, and i don't mean local pro but PRO. 

This is what I just did, pick up a 250 2t of your choice, strip it down and build it up from the ground up.  Have a reputable shop (ie Reynard Modifications, Robert has extensive knowledge on 2t's and can make some SERIOUS power) completely build up your motor, get your suspension set up for your skill and weight and hit the track.  I just finished doing this to my cr250, and the thing is amazing!!!!  When all was said and done I had about the cost of a bran new bike in it, but this one is set up and customized to me and my riding.  I am in it for about 2k labor 1,500 parts and 2k for the original bike, so for about $5,500 (these are rough figures) you have your race bike done.  If you want to get crazy you could pick up a set of used A-kits and have them rebuilt and you would still be under the price of a new 4t. 

Another thing to consider is that ,at least in the mid west, in the 30+ class alot of riders are carring about 30+ lbs with them as well, and weight robs hp and torque like a fat kid after cake!

[JohnN]

Hey westsiderippa - Man.... your story is so similar to many people out there. You prefer the two-stroke and want to race it but feel that you would be at a big disadvantage by choosing the two-stroke.

I hear you!!!

But the question is, are you really giving something up? Is the two-stroke really at a dis-advantage?

If you search your heart of hearts you will find that it does not have to be that way. You said "i raced a few events last year on my cr250 and can tell you first hand that displacement sucks. tracks like glen helen, hangtown, honey lake etc.. a 450 will eat up a 250 and thats just common sense." do you really believe that?

If so, that is the first "strike" against you.

As an example I will use a local Pro/Expert Racer in my area, Mike Leavitt. He too felt that in order to be competitive that he had to race the four-stroke bikes. He was on track to be a Pro racer, but had so many engine failures with his four-strokes that it was just crazy.

At mid-season in 2009 he finally had enough and parked his 450F and started to race his YZ250 two-stroke. He also raced the 25 Plus class with the same machine. What happened? His first race out on the two-stroke, he won all four motos!!!

He decided that he preferred the two-stroke and would beat the 450f's at their own game and he did. He won the 250 Expert (450F) and Plus 25 classes on his 250 two-stroke. The funny part of this story is that some people thought that he was cheating and using an over-bore!! But no one actually put up the protest fee, most likely for fear that it was only 250cc and they would look silly.

So the question for you is, do you really want to race the two-stroke? Because it can be done. Where can the 250 two-stroke beat the 450's?? In the corners. I know that so many people love jumps and jumping, but if you take the time to learn how to corner and get yourself into pretty good shape, you can win.

But you have another option as well... get a purpose built 300 MX machine! KTM has a bolt on kit for the 250SX and TM Racing has a purpose built 300MX... with the extra 50cc's you gain additional torque equal to or more than the 450F's and yet have a lighter machine. The best of all worlds.

I believe that you can do it!! Good luck!

By the way... congratulations on your engagement!

[miedosoracing]

If you are wanting a NEW bike, I'd go along with the KTM 250SX and putting on a  300 kit. If not, get a older but very unused YZ250 from 05 up, since they are all the same, and just do the big bore.  It's not just the HP numbers you seem to be looking for, but the torque as well. The big bore will give you what you need.

[2smoker]

The worst disadvantage against the 4 stroke on a 2 stroke is to keep up the momentum with them. One mistake and you are done. This is why I quit racing. I had a full factory YZ bought from Riverside Yamaha( pro  Circuit engine...) I was killing them on the whoops section and jumps like no tomorrow but they had a big advantage everywhere else. You are there shifting like a retard, revving that thing like not tomorrow and here they come on their 4 junk at the exit of the apex killing you sit in third gear on their stock bike..It is so unfair. I think the keyword is traction or usable/tractable power...4 stroke have it, not the 2. Their power delivery makes the  biggest difference in the battle, not only the cc's and you definitely see it when you race against them.  

[dogger315]

I'm one of those racers that switched from two to four stroke to stay competitive,
biggest mistake I ever made.  Yes it was easier to lay down faster lap times and
fatigue didn't set in as early in the moto, but the tradeoff was a huge increase
in cost and a huge decrease in fun.

I wised up late in '06, sitting in a hospital bed (engine blew up again and seized
off the face of a double).  Fortunately, I managed to sell all of my bikes and parts
to unsuspecting wanabes.  It's back to two strokes only, from now on.

The way I see it, you have a few options.  You can go with a 250 2T and spend
a large amount of money to get the power needed to race heads up with the 450s,
you can opt for a 285 or 300 and be more competetive without spending bags of
money or you can pick up a 500 AF and dominate the 450s.

I had over $17,000 tied up in the last CR I raced ('03).  You can buy a brand new
YZ and a big bore kit, or a Katoom 300 for less than half that amount.  Even a
Service Honda CR or KX 500 would cost much less than the amount required to
make a 250 2t competitive.

I plan to race my CR250 in the 250f class.  Unlike the AMA,  I believe everybody
should be equal.

dogger

[westsiderippa]

thanks john, best decision i have made was selling that bike and buying that ring. she is my number 1 fan and sponsor, lol. its all about manning up at this point. im fast on the 2t but need more practice. i just need to park the 450 like you said, get what i can out of it before it goes boom, and focus on riding 100% 2t. now to find an 09 yz. any thoughts where to look. none around the bay area i have found. the guys at OTD in auburn are searching and they said no 2010 till march april. found 1 09 on ebay in MI but thats another 600+ to ship.

[Hondacrrider]

thanks john, best decision i have made was selling that bike and buying that ring. she is my number 1 fan and sponsor, lol. its all about manning up at this point. im fast on the 2t but need more practice. i just need to park the 450 like you said, get what i can out of it before it goes boom, and focus on riding 100% 2t. now to find an 09 yz. any thoughts where to look. none around the bay area i have found. the guys at OTD in auburn are searching and they said no 2010 till march april. found 1 09 on ebay in MI but thats another 600+ to ship.

Hey, when you are done with your 450, keep the frame, and buy a cr 500 motor, I assume you would be able to find one for cheap, and make your own bike conversion. But, my suggestion, drop the 450 now for the track, use it only in the woods. Spend all your time on your 2 stroke at the track, so you are ready for your first race.

[JohnN]

thanks john, best decision i have made was selling that bike and buying that ring. she is my number 1 fan and sponsor, lol. its all about manning up at this point. im fast on the 2t but need more practice. i just need to park the 450 like you said, get what i can out of it before it goes boom, and focus on riding 100% 2t. now to find an 09 yz. any thoughts where to look. none around the bay area i have found. the guys at OTD in auburn are searching and they said no 2010 till march april. found 1 09 on ebay in MI but thats another 600+ to ship.

As great as dirt bike's are, there is nothing quite the same as having that kind of support in your life. All the best on that....

If you are determined you can locate an '09... a buddy of mine just spent an hour or so calling around to dealers in a three state area and found a couple at some dealers in New Jersey. Obviously these are far from you, but you could do the same near you. Also if a dealer is really interested in selling you a bike, they can check with the warehouse or other dealers and get the bike for you....

For shipping, it should not be much more then $400. to ship a bike across the country! I used Forward Air to ship my bike and the cost was $385. from New York to Miami... it got there in two days! They have a cost calculator on the site if you want to get a better idea. Although the bike will need to be dropped off and picked up at a Forward Air Terminal.

Did you try Service Honda? They are a full line dealer and AJ always seems to have some bikes in stock... it's worth asking! Plus they may have a deal on shipping that is less then what I found!

Once you decide to go two-stroke, you must remain committed, but most importantly, not psyche yourself out that the four-strokes are better. It's really not true!! Your attitude going in will be what you experience. Believe that you can beat them and guess what? You will beat them!

There is a reason that the old saying says that it's 90% rider and 10% bike..... it's not just the skill level, but your mental focus.. which is a much bigger piece (of course assuming that you have a base line of skill to begin with). As an example look at Ryan Dungey... everyone is saying that he has his head "together" and is very confident, he knows he belongs at the front and that's where he is.

You can do it!! With the lovely misses at your side, encouraging you, you'll be unbeatable in your class! Now go kick some four-stroke butt!! 

[Cable Stretcher]

West,

I have to ask why are you wanting to go with a brand new 2 stroke?  I know about frame fatigue and all that but, most (i would say 90%) riders do not ride their bikes hard enough to fatigue the frame.  Other than that the only thing you would have to replace is some barrings and seals.  You can buy a used one and completley I mean completely deck it out for less than what your are going to spend on a new bike.