Proof of what we say, if all manufacturers made 2 strokes.

[miedosoracing]

LL 250B stock class.  Here's what you should observe.  How many 4 stroke KTM and Yamaha bikes are out there. Plus the fact that as we've stated, the fastest guys are on 4 strokes, I'd be willing to bet, sponsored heavily seeing what names they have.  
Loretta Lynn's 2011 250B Stock Uncut ft Bell / Martin / Hill  

[snook620]

Zac Bell had the fastest lap at Lorettas all week with a 1:52.791. That guy was flying

[TMKIWI]

Not sure what you are getting at.
Enlighten me.

[miedosoracing]

Not sure what you are getting at.
Enlighten me.

The fact that when the riders in this class had a choice, they chose the 250 2 stroke over the 4 stroke.  The orange and blue bikes I saw were 2 strokes.

[TMKIWI]

Thanks.

But wouldn't you also agree that 250=250 is a fair class structure to have.
I have been slammed on here before about its not fair.
That race proves it.

[snook620]

Thanks.

But wouldn't you also agree that 250=250 is a fair class structure to have.
I have been slammed on here before about its not fair.
That race proves it.

Agreed.

Actually as muddy as that moto was I think the guys on 2 strokes were at a disatvantage.

[miedosoracing]

Thanks.

But wouldn't you also agree that 250=250 is a fair class structure to have.
I have been slammed on here before about its not fair.
That race proves it.

Are you asking me?  Umm, I'm pretty sure I've NEVER slammed anyone for saying that is fair.  Have pointed out multiple times here and Vital, that the 250 2 stroke isn't gonna win in pro class still, because the fast guys will still be on the 4 strokes.  But atleast it gives the normal guy a chance to compete on a level playing field without having to spend thousands on a PC motor or rebuilds.  I've even asked DC to allow the 2 strokes to just be completely bone stock in the motor. He said they would not be able to protect from cheaters. etc etc etc.  I'd like to compare a big bore non ported 250F bike against the HP from a PC bike. If I was a 35th guy, I'd have to ask myself, is it really cheating with a big bore, compared to a PC bike?  I'd love to see a completely stock pro class.

[TotalNZ]

Thanks.

But wouldn't you also agree that 250=250 is a fair class structure to have.
I have been slammed on here before about its not fair.
That race proves it.

Are you asking me?  Umm, I'm pretty sure I've NEVER slammed anyone for saying that is fair.  Have pointed out multiple times here and Vital, that the 250 2 stroke isn't gonna win in pro class still, because the fast guys will still be on the 4 strokes.  But atleast it gives the normal guy a chance to compete on a level playing field without having to spend thousands on a PC motor or rebuilds.  I've even asked DC to allow the 2 strokes to just be completely bone stock in the motor. He said they would not be able to protect from cheaters. etc etc etc.  I'd like to compare a big bore non ported 250F bike against the HP from a PC bike. If I was a 35th guy, I'd have to ask myself, is it really cheating with a big bore, compared to a PC bike?  I'd love to see a completely stock pro class.

The 250 class at the recent NZ national champs was won by a pro on a 2T, just.
His results and times on his modded 2t were about the same as the results and times of the other pros on modded 250f's. He is also the manager of the yamaha team in NZ so guess he can ride what he wants.
250 vs 250 is totally fair in my opinion mod or stock, pro or clubman.
The little extra power from the 2t is offset by the easier to manage 4banger.
just my opinion of course though.

[factoryX]

I don't even think 250 vs 250 is fair. Yes the 250 2 stroke makes more power everywhere but in more of a reliable sense long rod small piston perfect mid range bike, but the reason the 250 4t does so well is because of the fact of running such a large piston with such a very short stroke(CHEATING). This sort of thing is actually outlawed in certain race series. I thought I pointed this out in the other thread. 4 strokes by them self don't make more power, its how the motor laid out. If this was replicated with the 2 stroke, lets just say we wouldn't be having this discussion right now and that there would be a 4 stroke forum complaining about it.. The best part if you were to replicate this with a two stroke is that it would lower engine weight by compressing the motor a bit, leaving you with a smaller lighter bike.

[xX JonthE Xx]

Trololol 4 strokes? whats that?

[factoryX]

lol

[factoryX]

Crude but its sure as hell easier to explain to people who don't understand.

This also go hand in hand with more kids dying of late, they're riding larger bikes that have been slightly detuned, so in other words this has the potential to be a lawsuit.

[xX JonthE Xx]

HOLY SMOKES DOC!1 never knew this!

[factoryX]

Negative nancy.

[TMKIWI]

I am sorry Factory but you have it all wrong.
Comparing the difference in stroke length between 2's & 4's is pointless.

A 2 stroke "NEEDS" a long stroke to give it sufficient porting area in the bore to "Breath" to its potential.

The exact same reason as a 4 stroke "NEEDS" as large a bore as practicle to allow sufficient porting ( ie Valves ) to Breath to it's potential.



Thats why 2 strokes are "undersquare" & 4 strokes are "oversquare".