huge what if?

[helfrick15205]

 The manufactures wont do it but what if they made a 450 two stoke to compete with the 450 four strokes? I have ridden three 4 strokes (09kx450f, 06yz250f and an 009 crf 250) in my life and in my opinion their is no comparison to a two stroke. this is why i own only two strokes, but what if?
I have 2 500's, 3 250's, and 1, 125. i ride all over the east coast currently in sc, but i see nothing but two strokes at the tracks? when i asked the 450 rider if he wanted to ride a two stroke he seemed intimidated? whats the deal? are they so used to the laziness of a four stroke that they cant ride a two stroke!

[JETZcorp]

I agree, I don't think the Big Four will do it unless there's a big rule change and the market starts to drop trough on their sales.  However, I think it would be an interesting project to take a 450 motor from back in the day and put it into a modern aluminum (or steel!) frame.  You'd have to come up with a new pipe for it, but the rest might not be too difficult to work out.

I nominate this motor.

[helfrick15205]

i can go to the local yamaha dealer and pay $4500 for an 09 left over 450 and pay $6500 for an 09 250 two stroke left over. whats going in with that? dont make no sense to me.

[westsiderippa]

because they limit the production on the yz and have a butt load of the f's they need to dump since the release of the 2010 yzf creation

[JohnN]

Not only do almost all the manufacturers have '09 leftovers, but many have '08's and '07's as well. This has been the Japanese practice for many years...   

But these last few years have been worse for them then they care to admit. They are loosing customers like crazy and yet still pushing their own agenda.

I was just talking to the manager of the local dealer, most of the manufacturers are not bringing in the 2010 until they move a bunch of the '09 models. And Suzuki may not import many 2010 models at all this year!

Over the past few years there has been a resurgence of two-strokes at the local level, the manufacturers refuse to acknowledge this.... it will be a bigger problem for them in the future. 

[JETZcorp]

Well, hopefully the new Maico dealerships will have a line stretching out the door and around the block.  That would send the Big Four a real message!

[Hondacrrider]

The manufactures wont do it but what if they made a 450 two stoke to compete with the 450 four strokes? I have ridden three 4 strokes (09kx450f, 06yz250f and an 009 crf 250) in my life and in my opinion their is no comparison to a two stroke. this is why i own only two strokes, but what if?
I have 2 500's, 3 250's, and 1, 125. i ride all over the east coast currently in sc, but i see nothing but two strokes at the tracks? when i asked the 450 rider if he wanted to ride a two stroke he seemed intimidated? whats the deal? are they so used to the laziness of a four stroke that they cant ride a two stroke!

I was thinking of this too, what if the classes were true 125, 250, and 450. No need for open class anymore, the big bore two strokes would once again have a home. It is possible to make it by yourself too, I think. All you need for a competitive 450 two stroke, is a Service Honda kx500(because it is already modern out of the box, no big rebuild needs to be done) and then, you contact La Sleeve. I read in a dirt rider article that the company took a crf 450 and debored it down to a 400, if they can do this with a four stroke, i am sure they are capable of doing so with a two stroke. Now, if this is a four stroke supporting company, then, maybe this company isn't for you, but, there may be kits to do this somewhere...

[Recovered]

I refuse to sleeve a single cylinder 2T. The way it was in the "old" days was the open class. Anything 251cc's and up rides the open. Why should service Honda be punished because of 450 4T's. If the 450 is so good, it should race with open class (read that anything over 251cc's) and be successful. That's why open class 2T's were produced in sizes from 350 to 501 cc's. Whatever the factory thought would give their riders the best opportunity to win.
That said, this isn't about 2T vs 4T. Or is it even a displacement issue. It's about what the big 5 want to produce. Ask Davey Coombs. He admitted as much in a reply to my "State of It" article. Notice I don't let KTM off the hook? They go along with japan. They should be ashamed. They are not. They are selling every 2T they make. They are sitting on 4T's like everyone else. 

[Out of Order]

I read in a dirt rider article that the company took a crf 450 and debored it down to a 400

I would rather destroke that heifer than debore it. Most of the times it's easier to reduce the stroke than reduce the bore, even stands for car engines which are four strokes. Also it's easier to bore a cylinder(s) to get a larger displacement. It only makes sense.

[Recovered]

Either way, whether you reduce bore size or decrease stroke length, you MUST alter port timing, expansion chamber parameters and reed area. Otherwise, you are just peeing into a fan.

[Out of Order]

you are just peeing into a fan.

Or when some one is riding a four stroke, when it go's BOOM!! that's like shit hitting a fan. Bye bye engine.