2Stroke vs. 4Stroke [Request to Super Hunky]

[opfermanmotors]

Some more feedback occuring on the 2 vs. 4 Stroke articles in Yahoo! Groups. 

Hope you guy did actually believe everything you read, most of it was a load of crap. And yes I do work in the industry. If you think dealer are getting rich selling parts or that anyone is rebuilding their dirt bike every 10 hours you are way off base. I have an hour meter on my 05 RMZ and it has over 200 hours with a single rebuild. Check the maintainace schedule of any dirt bike ever and you will that NO ONE every follows it. Also we more races and racers in Dist 23 than ever. Most of this article was simply option with no facts. Interesting reading but so are allot of fiction stories.

Dear MR. Hunky,

Hi,Carl from VintageEvoBigBore2Strokes.
I recently forwarded "2 Strokes VS. 4 Strokes" to a couple of the groups I'm in at Yahoo.

Here is one of the responses.

I wish I knew enough to answer what this guy said.
I loathe the fact that there hasn't been a two stroke in racing in years.
Listening to 4 strokes fart around the track,rev limiting on every jump,is so annoying.
One of my friends just spent $1000 on a rebuild for his 2004 CRF 250,and I know of two CRF450's that have grenaded here in Bakersfield.

Anyways,this 'Industry guy' said, "Most of this article was simply option with no facts".

There are alot of things I want to say,but I'm not in the 'Industry'. Could you possibly reply to this statement?

Thanks,Carl in Bakersfield CA.

I have spoken to many people in the industry and almost all of them point to the
AMA for the demise of the two stroke bikes.
 
With the displacement of the two engines favoring the four stroke and their
(AMA) inability to see any further into the future then the end of their noses,
it seems the AMA led us down this path. And the OEM's do not want to lose money
on the huge investments they made to produce a new four stroke engine.

 
I would be very pissed at the AMA if they kept changing the rules and causing me
to lose profits. The manufactures stood up to the AMA and told them to stop
changing the rules. Not that they pushed one engine over the other, but after
they all went ahead and built the most competitive engine that the AMA allowed
in MX (the four stroke with it's displacement advantage), the OEM's were not
going to let the AMA change the rules again.
 
Since 1974 until today, being a life member of the AMA, I have not really ever
seen them do anything positive for the off-road community. If I did not have to
have an AMA card to race MX and VMX, I certainly would not support them in any
manner what so ever.
 
You only have to look back at the B to V events to see that the AMA is/was
useless. It was the private sector that stood up for this event. I did not see
the AMA helping at all. Is this not correct Rick, aka, SuperHunky?
 
Richard

[JohnN]

Some more feedback occuring on the 2 vs. 4 Stroke articles in Yahoo! Groups. 

Hope you guy did actually believe everything you read, most of it was a load of crap. And yes I do work in the industry. If you think dealer are getting rich selling parts or that anyone is rebuilding their dirt bike every 10 hours you are way off base. I have an hour meter on my 05 RMZ and it has over 200 hours with a single rebuild. Check the maintainace schedule of any dirt bike ever and you will that NO ONE every follows it. Also we more races and racers in Dist 23 than ever. Most of this article was simply option with no facts. Interesting reading but so are allot of fiction stories.

Part of this comment could be true... the part where he says he has over 200 hours on his four-stroke. I know of XR style four-strokes with way more hours than that on the bike without a rebuild. How would it be possible? By not revving the bike to the redline and/or not racing it...

Put around on one of the four-strokes and they can last for a good long time.

But be forewarned, when they are raced hard in competition, the 10 hour rebuild schedule will be way closer than the 200 hour one!!

I think these e-mails are funny, because the guy doesn't say what part of the industry he's in. Certainly if he works for a manufacturer, he is preaching the company line.

Just a little side-story... when we showed up at the Pro Nationals, with a two-stroke, there were way more people in the "industry" that wanted us to succeed than you can imagine.

Just my two-cents...

[SachsGS]

I've owned powersports businesses and have seen many,many 4Ts grenaded beyond repair.It is only logical that a significantly more complicated machine being operated in a manner much closer to the machine's design threshold will require significantly more maintenance.Anybody trying to argue against this point I can only conclude must be on crack or something.

There's an 09 SX250F in the local paper:20 hours,needs total rebuild,$3500 OBO.

[ACMX]

Anybody trying to argue against this point I can only conclude must be on crack or something.

This explains all four stroke racers.

[opfermanmotors]

I told them it was happening, but got dismissed as a conspiracy theorist. Super Hunky saw it coming too, and shouted it from the roof tops, but was dismissed the same as I. Two lone figures pointing at the grassy knoll, yelling something about smoke (blue smoke at that). The government was out to take our 2-strokes away, with the eager help of Soichiro Honda. We got accused of lining our helmets with aluminum foil to prevent governmental thought intrusion. We pointed out all of the 4-stroke boat motors and lawn mowers starting to appear everywhere... we pointed to the outlaw of the 2-stroke street bike... and the non-believers continued to scoff at us! (Alot of those boat and mower motors were made by Honda too)

When the YZ400F appeared we cried out "BEHOLD THE 1ST HORSEMAN!" They didn't hear, and they didn't hear it start either, at least not until heated with a torch and kicked fifty times (which we did enjoy watching the suffering there). We didn't say "I told you so". Hotter, meaner, easier to start (some pushbutton), and more expensive models began to appear. Big bore 2-strokes disappeared. The industry was all abuzz with a whole new lexicon- titanium valves, $2000 exhaust systems, cams, etc... Some of us clung tightly to our blue smoking dinosaurs, quietly awaiting the expensive mechanical problems to appear. They did, and it seems most hid this fact out of shame and simply just parked the bikes in the garage and/or put them up for sale. We did not say "I told you so". (In fact, I almost bought one because it was being sold so cheap).

2-strokes all but disappeared from the majors manufacturers model lineups. Modern motocross has become too expensive for the common man (the very man this sport has always celebrated and championed). Misguided greed has deeply injured our beloved sport. It's not the first time- look what happened to Maico! Do our sport a favor and quit buying those 4-stroke pieces of crap, quit lying about how great they are, pull your heads outta your butts and hold tight to your 2-strokes (and those guns they want, too).

This time I TOLD YOU SO.

[JETZcorp]

I can just imagine the author of that last bit (I presume that was Matt Cuddy?) speaking in a gigantic temple, with stained-glass windows in the shape of radial cooling fins and expansion chambers, prrrrreeeeeaaaaching before the congregation.  Letting his words sweep over the crowd and echo of the walls in this great building of the two-stroke Lord.  And he says unto them, that there have been before and will be in the future, those who doubt the two-stroke way.  But these are the lost souls of our world, brothers and sisters.  For they have fallen to the temptation of the mighty and fearsome valvetrain and have allowed their smoke to be replaced by strokes.  But soon there shall be REDEMPTION for the true and the loyal and the pre-mixers of the world.  And Maico will smile down upon them from the great Pfaffingen assembly plant beyond, and it shall be good, amen!

There comes a time when someone with a strong imagination and a strong writing skill can lay it on just a wee bit too thick.  Although the image of the YZ400F as the first horseman is pretty damn funny, and just a little too accurate for comfort.

[opfermanmotors]

I can just imagine the author of that last bit (I presume that was Matt Cuddy?)

That would be Vintage Vinnie.

[JETZcorp]

Can't say I've actually read anything of his until now.  Definitely has an interesting style.