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Offline YZ250

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New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« on: October 20, 2010, 09:56:06 PM »
Here's some questions about the new 2 stroke DI that I would please like answers to:
1. does this mean it can be made for all 2 stroke dirt bikes and quads?
2. Will this make any 2 stroke dirt bike have better fuel emissions than the 4 strokes? From what I read, they claim it can...
3. Why aren't big companies scrambling to get their hands on this genius technology? It would rake in the $$ if they mass produced it. Sure the 4 stroke sales will take a toll but the      companies still make money. probably even more money than before!
4. Would AMA let 2 strokes back into supercross/nationals?
5. Approx. How much would a Di kit cost for a yamaha/honda/(one of the top 5 brands) 250 or 125?
6. Would fuel mixture have to change? less oil or more? different ratio? etc...
7. In 5 years, what do you expect? will 2 strokes be "back from the dead"? will they wipe out four stroke sales? will it even gain in popularity???

please, give your opinion.   

Offline keeptwostrokesalive

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 04:37:49 AM »
The reason companies dont jump on this new technology is quite simple.  They are scared if they make a
DI two stroke then their expensive grenades wont sell.  Since four strokes are so unreliable they are making money off of them even after they have left their dealers.  They now the two strokes will sell good but they wont make near as much money off of them as the four strokes because of how cheap the parts are for two strokes.  We live in a very sad world :(

Offline miedosoracing

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 04:58:17 AM »
Here's some questions about the new 2 stroke DI that I would please like answers to:
1. does this mean it can be made for all 2 stroke dirt bikes and quads?
(Pretty sure it would be for newer bikes and not be a retro kit. Not saying someone won't make a retro kit eventually, but for now, if a manufacturer made DI, it would be on a new model only)
2. Will this make any 2 stroke dirt bike have better fuel emissions than the 4 strokes? From what I read, they claim it can...
(Yes, because the fuel will be sprayed in thus, the fuel will be burnt up)
3. Why aren't big companies scrambling to get their hands on this genius technology? It would rake in the $$ if they mass produced it. Sure the 4 stroke sales will take a toll but the      companies still make money. probably even more money than before!
(It's always about the dollar, they wouldn't make near the profit on parts as 4 strokes. Just think about how many parts there are in a 4 stroke.)
4. Would AMA let 2 strokes back into supercross/nationals?
(They are already allowed, just ProAMA will never alllow CC for CC, until the big 4 don't own them.)
5. Approx. How much would a Di kit cost for a yamaha/honda/(one of the top 5 brands) 250 or 125?
(Alot probably)
6. Would fuel mixture have to change? less oil or more? different ratio? etc...
(You would no longer mix oil, but it would be like old bikes, where there was a canister you fill with oil. Much less oil is used as well)
7. In 5 years, what do you expect? will 2 strokes be "back from the dead"? will they wipe out four stroke sales? will it even gain in popularity??? (Depends, Most likely no. But if Burns petition passed and 2 strokes started winning everything, possibly. But most of us just want people to remain having a choice)

please, give your opinion.   
www.miedosoracing.com
Fightin the system like a 2 stroke modern day Robin Hood!

Offline MXLord327

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 06:29:10 AM »
Profit on new bikes is just a few percent in a competitive market, but mark-up on parts is usually over 30%.  The company can make more profit on one full rebuild on a 4 stroke than they do when they actually sell the bike.  If you race it and rebuild it 2-3 times a year, well, you do the math....

Offline burn1986

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 07:51:13 AM »
Someone will pick it up, but I doubt it will be any of the Big 4. If they do, it will be for watercraft or snowmobiles, but they won't pick it up.

Offline Chris2T

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 08:12:06 AM »
Three words: Skidoo 800 Etec

If you are going to look ANYWHERE for where the future of 2 stroke motocross engines might lie, it has to be with the Ski-doo etec snowmobile. It simply is the closest engine of its kind to what would be needed in motocross. The engine is a twin cylinder 800 that deliver 163hp at the crank. Slice it in half and subtract 15% transmission loss to the rear wheel and you've got a 69hp 400 that sips fuel and oil (injected, not mixed)and doesn't pollute. If that isn't enough to persuade the AMA to allow them in then i don't know what is.

The ski-doo engine is made by Rotax, the same people who make the 3 wheeled Can-am Spyder. So I believe it will be Can-am who is the first to introduce a DI 2 stroke bike, especially since they have a strong dirtbike history

Offline SachsGS

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 09:17:00 AM »
Rumour has it that Husaberg is developing a new 2t powerplant to replace the KTM unit they are using now.I suspect this new engine may be direct injected and if successful this technology would most certainly be applied to the KTM lineup.

If the DI Evinrude outboards are any indication, direct injection has the potential to allow a two stroke to offer better fuel economy then comparable fourstroke powerplants in addition to meeting emissions standards.

KTM 300 sales are booming while four stroke manufacturers such as Suzuki are teetering on the brink of insolvency so I think it is safe to say the two stroke dirt bike will be around for a little while longer at least.

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2010, 10:45:12 AM »
On a efi 4-st. if you put a pipe or anything aftermarket on, you now have to bring your bike to a dealer to reprogram the computer,according to my pal that worked for KTM with the factory race teams. So on a 2-st. if you do a minor mod like reeds,you have to take your bike to a dealer for a reprogram,this includes pipes and silecers,etc. and porting the cylinder could be out of the question  all together. Because the computer may not be able to come up with a program , that doesn,t cause the bike to blow up. IMO where better off with carbs.

Offline teriks

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2010, 11:45:40 AM »
Quote
Pretty sure it would be for newer bikes and not be a retro kit. Not saying someone won't make a retro kit eventually, but for now, if a manufacturer made DI, it would be on a new model only
Seen this? http://www.envirofit.org/?q=our-products/2-stroke-retrofit
Quote from: Environfit.org


Nothing close to a racing application, still _very_ interesting.

EDIT: Formatting of quote.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 11:55:01 AM by teriks »

Offline rob the snaill

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Re: New 2 Stroke Direct Injenction
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2010, 03:06:09 AM »
this DI would have to be a positive as its progress and as we know those new 450s are darn fast...
being a 2 smoker guy for life i will definitely embrace this and whats more it was invented in my home town!!! Perth West Australia