The future of mx? Electric?

[ford832]

How about the cf100 Canuck.What can I say-makes sense to me-lol.

[JohnN]

I'm a fan of jet cars, simply because I'm a fan of jets.  To me, the 2nd best sound in the world (behind a two-stroke) is a pair of Pratt & Whitney F100 low-bypass turbofan jet engines.  Twenty points if anyone can tell me what airplane uses that engine configuration, Fifty if you can do it without looking it up.

SR-71

Went down to the Udvar Hazy Center in DC, spent the better part of a day there, but I could spend days there... just an amazing exhibit!

[JETZcorp]

I don't know if you were submitting the SR-71 as your guess for what uses the F100 engines, or if you were just pointing out a great plane.  If it was the latter, then I totally agree.  The thing is a legend.  If it was the former, then I'm sorry, but you can try again at no extra cost!

[ford832]

How about an F15?Failing that,maybe a Piper Cub

[JohnN]

one of these goes into one of these......



Ford832 is the winner... I had to Google it!

Funny enough a friend flew these for the Navy in the Top Gun program.....

[Swimr2DaResQ]

The PW100 is also used in  the F-16 as a single engine aircraft, where as the F-15 uses dual PW100. Either way, that's a whole lot of thrust and ear drum rupturing sound!!!!

[JETZcorp]

The F-15 is the right answer.  Going deeper into it (and remembering that I'm going from memory here) the original F-15A (which was around in the days of square-barrel Maicos) used the F100-PW-100 engine.  The F-15C (which was around in the days of Bob Hannah) used the slightly less-powerful but far more reliable F100-PW-220 that is still the main F-15 powerplant today.  A few F-15E models have been upgraded to the superior-in-every-way F100-PW-229 engine.  You can tell which planes have the -229 by the flame coming out the back.  If the engine's making enough power for it to be blue (in flight and broad daylight, not in a testing chamber), it's a -229.

I was into planes long before I became a two-stroke fanatic.  But anyway, Ford 832 wins 50 points.  That's precisely enough JETZ-Points to buy you a cookie.  Go get yourself a cookie!

[ford832]

I'd feel guilty eating the cookie alone as I have to admit I cheated as well.I "googled" my father-he worked on planes all his life in the military.

[JETZcorp]

Going back to the topic of bikes, I think it would be cool if someone made a turbine bike.  Probably wouldn't work to well for motocross, but I think it would be perfectly okay on a street machine.  Chrysler made a turbine car many years back, and rather than hooking it up to some pansy generator for electric power, they strapped that bad boy to a regular transmission.  It only had 130bhp, but the torque was at 450lb-ft!  This was back in '63 which was a long time ago in terms of turbines.  A modern interpretation of a turbine powerplant would probably be quite effective, and because they have 1/5 the moving parts of a V8, they'd last forever.  All you need are some really good bearings, like big versions of what you'd see in a supercharger (which spins faster than a jet engine).

[luthier269]

About a month ago a guy brought one to track. And I got a chance to ride one! I don't know if its the same make but it looks the same. Well all I can say it was a blast. It felt like a bicycle with the power of a ktm65. I'm sure that technology will get better and some day may catch up with traditional motorcycles. the only complaint was no transmission but that is what most riders are used to. The cost was around $7000 so that turned most people there off. Also there was no class that it could race in so interest was low about buying one. One of the local pros took it on the track and was going fast and getting alot of air on it and then the battery went dead. The sales rep said a second battery could be put in and away you would go but it cost an additional $3000. So cost is a problem.

[Hondacrrider]

I really don't understand why so many people are against the idea. In my opinion this is a great thing for motocross. The problem is that they cost so much(electric bikes). Imagine it, an electric dirtbike, with nobbies and all, 50 ft. lbs. of torque, and only weighing 150 pounds. Now, if they could make these for 3500 each, they would for sure have something. Now, before you guys start attacking me on the range on these bikes, the crappy suspension, and the mickey mouse components, let me explain how this would be good for the sport. I don't think that these bikes would replace full on motocross or trail bikes, I don't think this at all. I think it would be a great way to have backyard tracks, and be able to practice in your backyard after work or school, or, imagine this, urban motocross. Imagine this at let's say a skate park, or just around town. Another great application would be Arenacross. The sport is so tight, and requires so little top speed that it would do just fine, and would be super quiet. Also, for endurocross. oh, and as for the batteries going in the landfill, this electric motorcycle company makes batteries that are completely bio-degradeable. You could eat it. Here is the link, zeromotorcycles.com

[JETZcorp]

Although it's late and I should be focusing on other things like Murray Rothbard lectures, I'm going to type out one of the stories from Monkey Butt.  It's a story about the future of motorcycle riding, and I think you'll find it interesting.  I'm putting it here because the bike in question is electric, sort-of.  All credit, of course, goes to Super Hunky.

SUNDAY MORNING RIDE IN THE FUTURE

Author's note:  I wrote this piece after a few good friends got arrested for riding in the hills, and received hefty fines.  About two months later, the so-called 'sensitive land' they were riding on was bladed and condos were built on that spot.  It made me think about the future...

A shaft of bright sunlight knifed through a gap in the curtains.  It was this that caused Adam Spence to wake up.

When he did awake, he snapped his eyes open in excitement.  This was Sunday morning.  And that meant one thing: today was riding day.  Today that good old dirt bike gets fired up and it's ride, ride, ride!

Let's see... time for a quick breakfast?  Nope.  It was almost 7:15.  Time was ticking away.

Adam descended the shaft leading to the communal garage; his machine was stored in cubicle 14.  There it was.  Sleek, purposeful and mean looking.  Jagged knobs bristled on the tires and the hydro-pneumatic suspension valves reflected light off their stainless metal surfaces.

The machine was a 125 amp Yamaha YZ-27-MX and was the finest money could buy.  It handled like a dream and put out the maximum horsepower allowable under the current government regulations: 15 HP at the rear wheel.  And it was all paid for; that was the best part.

Loading up took little time.  Adam hand't been riding for over three months and was more eager than usual.

OK.  Helmet, boots, gloves, goggles, protective clothing, mandatory wrist identification.  Forget anything?  Oh, Christ!  Almost forgot the permit!  Let's see now; where was it last?  Near the dresser by the bed?  Yeah, here it is.  Man, you don't want to lose one of those recreational permits; they're way too hard to come by.

As Adam drove out to the main road, it was hard to restrain the excitement.  Thoughts flickered through his mind, fun thoughts: "I wonder what I should ride first today?  An enduro, or maybe a few hot laps around the motocross course?  Or maybe I should simply spend most of the day in the desert?  I've always loved to ride the desert.  Oh well, I'll just make up my mind when I get there.  That's whst always happens anyway."

An hour and a half later, Adam arrived at the State Multi-Recreational Track.  It was hard to miss that giant building, covering nearly ten city blocks.  He paid to enter the parking lot and let his vehicle follow the magnetic line to a slot on level three.

Adam presented his identification and permit at the window and was given his Class 4 badge, something very difficult to earn these days.  This meant he was allowed to ride all types of tracks, except the roundy-round stuff, which he didn't much care for anyway.

The lift/hoist removed his machine from his vehicle and the lady at the window gave him an assigned number: Section 34B.  Hot damn!  The best section in the house!  This was going to be a good day; Adam could just tell.

He entered the transporter tube and punched 34B on the console panel.  Moments later, the doors whispered open and there he was.  Section 34B, a favorite among riders all over the nation.  Some people even drove hundreds of miles just to ride this beauty.

And there was his machine, sitting patiently with the energy transfer cord plugged into the power plant.  Was it fully charged yet?  Nope.  The red light on the tank was still blinking.  Adam slipped on all of his gear, the sound of the Velcro attaching strips music in his ears.  Just as the last glove was locked into the sleeve, the red light on the tank quit blinking.  Ready!  The machine was 100 percent charged and set for a full ride.

Adam disconnected the power cord and pushed the machine over to the section entrance.  Unsmiling, the attendant demanded to see his permit.  A mild moment of panic hit Adam, but the permit was right there in his pocket where it was supposed to be.  A selector was clipped to his handlebar and the attendant opened the door and let man and machine into the riding area.

It was beautiful!  The large turnstile-like platform measured nearly 100 yards around at the other circumference, possibly the biggest and most demanding course in the country.  Oh sure, there was a bigger one in Belgium, but that one had been built years ago and was nowhere near as elaborate as this beauty.

The texture of the dirt was perfect - as always.  Loamy and soft, with no rocks.  Bumps, ten-foot slopes and several heart-stopping jumps made this a rider's track.  Not one of those dull tracks found in the smaller towns.  This one was a test; a real test of the bike and the body.

Adam checked everything over carefully.  Sixty pounds of pressure in the suspension, power unit fully charged, all ready.  Now, what kind of riding?

How's about a little desert to start the day off right.  He flipped the visual selector to Desert and almost immediately the platform started moving, like a giant turntable.  The walls and ceiling came alive as cameras projected the proper image.  Joshua trees flashed by, the sky was an incredibly eye-hurting blue, and the mountains in the distance loomed up high and proud.

Adam was so caught up with the beauty that he almost fell.  Whuuup!  Better pay attention to the business at hand.  Those bumps will getcha, if you're not watching.

A series of whoop-dee-doos rippled up ahead, but the suspension did most of the work of soaking up the harsher jolts.  Standing on the pegs did the rest.

Deep sand loomed up, the rutted wheel-grabbing kind.  Adam got his weight back and rolled on the throttle.  The bars waggled some.  Not bad, but enough to demand no errors on the part of the rider.

Perspiration broke out on his brow and breathing became deeper.  Dirt riding was hard work, indeed.  A smooth section came up and Adam reached down to the Selector and deftly flicked the sound switch to 112 decibels on the "A" scale.  Almost immediately, the sound of a barely-muffled expansion chamber rattled the platform, hammering his eardrums in the process.  But the assault on his ears was music.  Good music.

It was amazing how the sound of the exhaust synced perfectly with every nuance of his throttle hand.  Tweak the throttle, and the crescendo blitzed upward; back off and the sound muted and popped.  Bitchin'!

[...]

Adam glanced at his watch.  Not much time left.  Better get in some motocross before his riding period expired.  Click.

Bodies hurtled by as they jumped the gate right in front of him.  Even though he knew they were just images, it was still frightening.  Adam scrambled for the first turn, passing several of the images and making contact with several more.  Angrily, the buzzer warned him of his clumsiness.  He made a mental note to be more careful; too many buzzer violations and that old riding permit would get yanked for six months or more.

The platform speeded up, as it always did for the motocross segment.  Bumps that had previously been average, suddenly took on a new, more vicious character.

He had to ride wider and wider to make the turns, using all of the available platform and coming perilously close to leaving the platform at times.

Adam got caught up in the frenzy of competition, and worked the machine for all it was worth: thrust, slide, jump, pass, and weave in and out of traffic until his forearms were burning.  But he still pushed harder and harder.  And the harder he pushed, the better he rode.  No buzzers snarled at him, even though he was riding right in the thick of all the action.  Adam was completely caught up in the heat of competition when a loud bell sounded.

Then, everything stopped.  All of the images disappeared.  Motion ceased.  The platform no longer moved.  And the warning light on his tank flashed accusingly that his time was, indeed, up.

Reality was brought back with sudden harshness.  Being yanked back to Earth this quickly was always depressing.  It always seemed to happen during motocross.  Adam made a mental note to try and ride enduros toward the end of his next ride.

As he was pushing his machine out of 34B, another eager rider was waiting at the entrance.  Adam envied him, but, three months from now, he'd be back.

When he got to his vehicle, his machine was already loaded on the carriers for him, just one of the many niceties of this Multi Track.  An undefinable feeling of depression settled over Adam as he drive back to his apartment.  It sure would have been nice to ride a bit longer.  Oh well.

Then he saw it.  Among all the buildings by the MainWay, there was a section of open ground.  Obviously, several older buildings had been torn down and the land was awaiting construction of the new buildings.  But there it was: several acres of dirt.  Real dirt.  And it wasn't fenced in.

Adam pulled off at the next Loop and worked his way back to the construction site.  No one was around.  He was tempted... hell, why not?  What could they do to him, anyway.  He was sure that at least 30 minutes of power was left on the reserve units in his machine.

A few moments later, the bike was unladed and he flipped the lever to reserve.  Sure enough, nearly a half hour left.  He clicked the power plant on and checked everything over, mostly out of force of habit.

A dab on the left side engaged the convertor and the bike moved off  Hey, this is really neat, thought Adam.  He pitched the machine over and threw a rooster tail high into the air.  Grinning like a man possessed, he slithered and slid all over the construction site.  At the end of a very few minutes, Adam had a homemade track grooved in the dirt.  He was panting so hard that he was forced to take a short breather.  Wow, this was hard work!  Sweat coursed down his brow and the salt stung his eyes.  But he was happy.

Leaning forward on the bars, he studied the area around him.  All those buildings and right in the middle, his own personal dirt riding area!

These were his last thoughts.  A millisecond later, the sharp sound of a firearm cracked and echoed.  The bullet entered Adam's forehead and passed through his brain.  He was dead before his head slammed against the crossbar.

The little red light on his tank blinked.  The Sunday morning ride was over.

YES!  I typed all that in less than 45 minutes!  Damn I'm tired!

[MMS]

On a practical level there are two big draw backs. Firstly, while the electricity comes from burning fossil fuels there is no pollution saving, fossil burning power stations are hugely inefficient so you might as well put the fossil fuel into the machine itself. Secondly, the environmental impact of the battery production would probably make it as a whole less environmental friendly than a conventional motorcycle.

Against that, the world and the people in it being as they are, there is little doubt that the perception of such vehicles allied to the decreased noise levels may possibly make it viable to ride one of these off road in certain places where a conventional motorcycle couldn't be ridden, for a while anyway!

[JohnN]

The electric bike will be a part of the landscape at some point. This is not a very popular nor welcome discussion by many for multitudes of reasons.

Let's keep some thoughts in mind to offer perspective. The first VCR's (the contraptions that play video tapes) cost over $1,000.00 when they first came out. If you can find one for sale you will probably pay less than $30.00 for one today. When large quantities are manufactured the prices go down.

The same will happen with Electric Bikes and batteries... we are at the birth of these things. They will get more efficient and less expensive as technology advances. To think that battery technology or electric bikes are at the peak of where they can be is naive.

As for the production of electricity, as of 2006 this is the breakdown of different sources here in the USA.



Since then there has been a big addition of Alternatives. Texas and New York now have huge wind farms, there are solar generating plants in the SouthWest... From my understanding going into the future there will be many different generating sources for electricity. Much will depend on where you live.

For instance in Iceland much of there heat and electricity is derived from Geo-Thermal means. In Germany you can not drive very far without bumping into solar panels. In Denmark, wind power is the dominent source of electricity.

People are creative and resourceful when given the chance and not blocked by folks that are content with the status quo.

Let's try to think outside the box.

[JETZcorp]

I agree that electric bikes will be good for those who want a nice ride after-work and don't want to drive a hunnert miles to do it.  The argument that they get their power from fossil fuels has a couple of problems.  First, as John pointed out, a lot of the power does not come from fossil fuels.  Where I live, we get just about all of it from the Columbia River.  Also, even if you do get power from fossil fuels, it's more efficient.  Yes, it's a remarkably inefficient process, but you have to remember that you're comparing it to a small-scale internal-combustion engine with an emphasis on performance over efficiency.  Electric power production is a more efficient source of energy "by-the-numbers" than direct mechanical use of a fossil fuel.

But again, I want to hold out for alternative FUELS that will run in existing bikes.  I don't want to be forced to switch to electric or hydrogen or whatever.  I'm willing to pay $15 a gallon to ride my Husky if it comes to that.  Sound, smell, look, and feel of a 2T internal-combustion engine is the majority of what I like about them, and that's a powerful list of things that will be flat-out gone in an electric world.