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Author Topic: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.  (Read 16117 times)

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Offline TMKIWI

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 09:20:52 PM »
Hands up anyone ,who if they were a MD of a company and you designed a product that was cheaper to make and outperformed your current product.
Would you shelve it ? ???

Make you think doesn't it.
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline Out of Order

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 10:06:55 PM »
 >:D I've hated Honda for a while now. The Moto2 thing sealed that deal, what a bunch of $loaded$ cry babies. I hope Honda doesn't sell a single four stroke bike this year and causes the whole company to collapse. I'll laugh.

But to the Moto2 thing, they either paid the FIM off or the FIM has former Honda employees running it. That class sucks!! I really don't see a difference except that the 250's were faster and more exciting to watch. The 600's are like production bike racing BORING!!!!!!!! And every bike is a modified CBR600 engine with a custom chassis. What are they going to do to the 125's now? Put CRF450 engines in a custom chassis.

At least for road racing I can still buy a older Yamaha TZ 250 and race it in WERA, CCS, or USGPRU (for know). Who needs the FIM or the AMA any way. 8)

Offline GlennC

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 10:12:25 PM »
^ I agree, I am thinking of dropping out of AMA district 37 racing, And racing USDR here in SoCal.
I can't stand giving the AMA my money while the unfair 4 stroke handicap in in place for pro racing. This crap is eliminating any chance for the privateer.

Offline riffraff

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2010, 10:24:56 PM »
I remember when the AMA wasn't what it is... but now it SUCKS!
aaahhhhh yes, I remember the good old days

Offline wintrader

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 03:30:13 AM »
Why worry so much about honda. Here in europe people are going back to 2 strokes maily becaquse the 4 strokes are to expensive to maintain. So if honda does not want to manufacture 2 stroke what is the problem? Just buy an other brand. About motorcycling racing only 15 bikes in motogp now because too expensive for privateers. It is a shame.

Offline scotty dog

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2010, 05:57:59 AM »
It is a damn shame Honda dont make 2 smokes any more, ive had afew Hondas in my life and i think they build one of the best finished and most reliable bikes around.
I love my 05 and will maybe never get rid of it, i will NEVER buy a CRF though! 
F**K THE WHALES......................SAVE THE 2 STROKE!!!!

The hardest part about riding a 4 stroke is telling your parents your Gay!!

05 CR 250

Offline GlennC

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2010, 10:17:37 AM »
Why worry so much about honda. Here in europe people are going back to 2 strokes maily becaquse the 4 strokes are to expensive to maintain. So if honda does not want to manufacture 2 stroke what is the problem? Just buy an other brand. About motorcycling racing only 15 bikes in motogp now because too expensive for privateers. It is a shame.

For me, I grew up on a Honda and have a good relationship with my local Honda dealer. The parts inventory is very good as well, Honda's US headquarters is 30 miles from me.

Luckily for me, The same dealer is a Yamaha dealer as well. I just picked up a YZ250, And so did the sales manager, I have his commitment on parts inventory. So I guess I'm a Yamaha guy now ;D
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 10:40:19 AM by GlennC »

Offline SachsGS

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2010, 04:21:55 PM »
If Honda is so certain of the future of four strokes why don't they build a 4s chainsaw?

Untill then,I'd place my bets on a DI 2s.

Offline JETZcorp

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2010, 09:58:53 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, Honda made the Red Rockets in the late '70s, then carbon-copied the 490 to make their excellent CR480, and the rest just isn't really worth mentioning, except maybe the early Elsinores.  What I see in Honda is a company that has the potential and even to a large extent, the engineering culture to produce some of the best bikes on the planet.  They simply know how to roll in and take care of bidness.  However, there's just one little bit of the formula that just turns the whole rest of it into manure, and that's this zealous anti-2T policy.  Mr. Honda may tell the magazines that they stopped making two-strokes in order to make a more beautiful and healthy environment, complete with clearer skies and prettier butterflies, but this man KNOWS that one of his company's engineers produced a two-stroke that laid all their four-strokes to waste in emissions.  That thing wasn't shut down because it couldn't perform, or wasn't good for the polar bears.  It was shut down because... they just have something against two-strokes.  I can't even begin to fathom why they take this silly little stance, but they do!  Couple this with their propensity to lobby for unfair rules to support bad engineering, rather than creating good engine to conquer fair rules, and they've got themselves firmly mounted on the official JETZcorp Boycott List.

And if Honda wants off that list, they better turn around and become the engineering company they're so proud to claim themselves as.  And here's an idea, how about they send one of their many many many PR people onto this forum once a week?  Just assign the "forum guy" and have him make the rounds throughout some of the notable and influential internet forums, including this one.  I mean, if someone from Maico can find the time to do it, surely a company as large as Honda can spare one guy for half an hour out of the week to try and address the one group of people that are going to go out and tell their friends not to buy their stuff.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 12:57:29 PM by JETZcorp »


Is this Maico a 440 or only a 400?  Well in all the confusion, I forgot myself.
But considering this is a 1978 Magnum, the best-handling bike in the world, you have to ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky, punk?

Offline wintrader

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2010, 11:25:29 PM »
In europe i guess 75% of sold motox bikes are KTM anyway. Honda not popular at all. Every country has so it brands. I guess in the US they like japanese bikes more. But here if honda does not want to make 2 strokes the hell with them not popular anyway. I tell you again here in europe more and more 2 strokes. For the rest same thing as in the US very cheap secondhand 4 strokes and more expensive secondhand 2 strokes.

One of my friends just traded in his 2 stroke gas gas enduro for a ktm sx 250. The shop who traded in his gas gas told him: we only trade in your bike because it is a 2 stroke. Several years ago noone wanted 2 strokes now they only want 2 strokes.

Lots of manufacturers produce 2 strokes so not much problems if you want to buy one. I know the best prof riders in the US are riding japanese bikes but really those riders would also win on ktm's or other brands. I know because i know former world champion pedro Tragter. Even on a 125 he won enduro races. And was much faster then any bike on the track (2 or four stroke no matter what displacement).

Even if 4 strokes are faster which i think they are not but lets presume so. Are we worldchampions over here? No we wanna have fun for decent costs. And then 2 stroke is the way to go. If the 4 strokes were so superior on all fronts noone would ride a 2 stroke anymore. It seems this is not the case because the request for 2 strokes is getting higher and higher.

Tell me what should be the reason for young guys to buy four strokes? Because they think they are the fastest bikes. In a lot of cases our lives are ruled by propaganda! Certainly in the US. Look at fox news the terrorist thing axis of evel Iran and so on. How many times on fox news did i hear Barrack HUSSAIN Obama.Also they told people that Hugo Chavez is a dictator. yeah ok. Same with bikes buy the bike you want and do not listen to what manufacturers tell you. Because they always will tell you latest model is the best and so on. Buy your 2 stroke have fun and do not even think about what honda wants to produce. Because why should we.


Offline maicoman009

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2010, 07:42:18 AM »
" Mr. Honda may tell the magazines that they only make two-strokes in order to make a more beautiful and healthy environment, complete with clearer skies and prettier butterflies, but this man KNOWS that one of his company's engineers produced a two-stroke that laid all their four-strokes to waste in emissions.  That thing wasn't shut down because it couldn't perform, or wasn't good for the polar bears.  It was shut down because... they just have something against two-strokes. "

Yeah and that's another one of the major reasons why I have very,very,very little respect for Honda.!!! and I seen a little typo in your quote JETZ,[Mr. Honda may tell the magazines that they only make four-strokes in order to make a more beautiful and healthy enviroment] Not two-strokes..JETZ..lol,lol. Anyway why in the blue hell would Honda decide to NOT only shelve that great 2-stroke engine design but to also demote the enginneer that built the awesome 2-stroker ???
   There's just one more thing I'd like to say and that is the more I think about Hondoo making such a royal friggin mistake like that I can recant saying I have very,very,very little respect for Honda,I can now say "I have NO RESPECT FOR THEM AT ALL ! >:D
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 08:18:03 AM by maicoman009 »

Offline SubTexel

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2010, 09:41:19 PM »
It's no secret Honda has always been against the 2 strokes. The whole push into 2 strokes in the 70s was out of necessity, not want. (And they made it very known then, and all the way up until they killed off their 2 stroke lineup in 2007).

What I did find refreshing in the article however was his admission that there is a 2 stroke resurgence, and personally he liked the CR250s the most out of all the other bikes he has helped design and or ride. Pretty candid coming from a Honda employee, but don't ever expect Honda to -EVER- come back into the 2 stroke market, never going to happen no matter how popular the 2 strokes get again. They'll never fall into the trap of admitting their 4 stroke technology isn't up to par with 2 stroke technology a second time.

Which is a shame because I love my 06 CR250, more so than my 2010 250SX (which I also love). Yamaha, which still produces their 2 strokes does so completely half assed (no frame or engine updates since 2005 (and the engine updates back then were really nothing at all), no suspension updates since 2006 and no cosmetic updates (other than graphics) since 2002). KTM also half asses their 2 stroke lineup never standing behind their 250SX or 150SX beyond making them and providing small updates to their bikes, though they do support their off road lineup pretty well. If they truly were behind their 2 strokes they'd have sponsored riders out there racing them along side their current 4 strokes, but instead choose to push their 450 and 250Fs...

Offline 2stroker

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2010, 01:50:31 AM »
honda is a silly company..   first they stop CR two strokes  the most popular 2 stroke ever when they were being made! then they stop the hugely popular XR  there biggest seller .    there a smart company     ??? ???

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2010, 08:57:50 AM »
I remember when the AMA wasn't what it is... but now it SUCKS!
   I  agree  RiffRaff   we  need  Duke  Finch  back. In  the  90,s  I   went  to  the pro races, the  post race  parties, etc. Duke  would  be  in the  pits, long  after  the  race  hanging  out  with  groups  of  regular  folks, giving  a  privateer  advice,etc. He  even  gave  me  the  ama  pro  racing  cap, off  his head, just  because  I  said  Dukes  the  coolest, Dukes  the  toughest,etc. and  he  has  the  coolest  cap. He   was  for  the  enthuiest  racer, more  grassroots, for  the  factory  teams  he  was  like  a  babysitter, they like  to fight  over  parking  spots,etc.  It  seemed  liked  he  saw  the  factory teams  as  a  minority, and  the  rest  of the  riders  were more important.

Offline SubTexel

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Re: Hondas NOT so surprising anti 2-stroke stance.
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2010, 09:58:47 AM »
honda is a silly company..   first they stop CR two strokes  the most popular 2 stroke ever when they were being made! then they stop the hugely popular XR  there biggest seller .    there a smart company     ??? ???

They didn't kill their XR lineup, they just renamed it to fall in line with their competition 4 stroke lineup (CRF instead of XR is all).

And I do agree it is sad they killed their 2 stroke lineup, but at least they have been very forward with their views on 2 strokes and have gone that extra step to stand behind their decision 100% even if it is a very flawed stance. Other companies have kept their 2 strokes on life support only if to save face with their consumers, but I doubt they'll carry it on much longer regardless of the resurgence of the 2 stroke. They aren't keeping them alive because it's the right thing to do, or that they sell well (Yamaha only produces a very small amount of 2 strokes that they import here into the U.S, they sell out of them very quickly but how long do you think Yamaha will keep doing so when they are having problems moving their 4 strokes? Still quite a few YZ450 and 250F leftovers in dealers showrooms from 1-2 years ago on top of the "revolutionary" 2010 450F and 250F bikes that are still on show room floors unsold and heavily discounted). Doesn't say much for Yamaha and their mighty 4 strokes and I can see them dumping the 2 strokes to save face...