Interesting Stuff On Vital MX

[dhamblin]

I'll second it.

So you do know what a ratio-rite is for then  

Nice to see you here!

[Recovered]

Well the factories are handing you a race ready bike that with little modification can be competitive on a national scale-if you are. It's pointless and adolescent to trade insults and barbs. Before you toss one my way I own both. But the CRF is up waiting for me to gather cash for a rebuild. After which it's probably going up for sale so I can buy a modern (300 KTM) big bore smoker. Yep I drank the Kool Aid.  Meanwhile I ride my '80 YZ465. Great bike,only 2nd over after 31 years. Well it did spend about 15 years in the corner of the original owners garage after he broke a femur after 3 rides. 2nd owner only rode it 3 or 4 times then sold it to my ex for a Xmas present for me. Man I miss her. 

John it was 1972 as far as I can remember and this is the only documentation I can find-from The American Motorcyclist June '97. Maybe a year or so in either direction but I am reasonably certain it was '72. 



And a Ratio -Rite is for people that suck at math.

[miedosoracing]

And a Ratio -Rite is for people that suck at math.

That is very interesting.  So the original 360cc vs 250cc would have actually worked. Go figure. 

[Recovered]

Oh and I'd like to call your attention to something fun and interesting. You can race 500CC 2 strokes in the Vet/Senior classes. Hell the rules are written so if you toss some knobbies on a Sportster you can run it. Us old guys can have all the fun. Big Bore Smokers Rule.

[Chris2T]

That is very interesting.  So the original 360cc vs 250cc would have actually worked. Go figure. 

Probably not. These were heavy, slow revving, 4 strokes that would have had a devil of a time being muscled around the track. Doug Henry not withstanding, I don't believe the 4 strokes were finally competitive until the 450F's came around. Even the YZ400F and YZ426 were brutes that would wear the rider out and had trouble competing with the smokers. It took a full 200cc handicap and years of technological advancement before they could beat the 2 strokes straight up

[miedosoracing]

That is very interesting.  So the original 360cc vs 250cc would have actually worked. Go figure.  

Probably not. These were heavy, slow revving, 4 strokes that would have had a devil of a time being muscled around the track. Doug Henry not withstanding, I don't believe the 4 strokes were finally competitive until the 450F's came around. Even the YZ400F and YZ426 were brutes that would wear the rider out and had trouble competing with the smokers. It took a full 200cc handicap and years of technological advancement before they could beat the 2 strokes straight up

That's what I meant. That given what we know now. That if the rule that was on the books from the 70's until 1994, in 2010 would probably be perfect today.  It was only a 4 year span from when they upped the rules to 550 to Doug Henry. So for a 4 year rule, it messed up a 30 year rule.  If they would have made the rule back to original in 1999 when Doug Henry won on the 400f, today we would have about 50/50 of 2 and 4 strokes out there.  I still can't figure out the logic in the room when they shot out the cc rule after Doug won. Ok, guys, Doug Henry just won on a 400F, and we all know the bike is gonna only get better. So let's make it 450cc... 

[JohnN]

It's pointless and adolescent to trade insults and barbs. Before you toss one my way I own both.

You and I are in complete agreement here. Personally I feel that the barbs and insults have created more problems than the bikes ever did.

As for tossing you one, it won't happen from me!  

Thank you so much for posting the blurb from the AMA magazine.... I must have missed that issue.

By the way nice YZ you have there... not sure if you saw the one I restored, it's worth a look...  

http://projectyz.jfn3.com/

[JohnN]

I still can't figure out the logic in the room when they shot out the cc rule after Doug won. Ok, guys, Doug Henry just won on a 400F, and we all know the bike is gonna only get better. So let's make it 450cc...

Then to add insult to injury, they passed the unleaded fuel rule, which lowered the available horsepower of the two-strokes...

It sort of sounds like there was an agenda of some type in place.    

Oh no... here they come!!

[Chris2T]

That is very interesting.  So the original 360cc vs 250cc would have actually worked. Go figure.  

Probably not. These were heavy, slow revving, 4 strokes that would have had a devil of a time being muscled around the track. Doug Henry not withstanding, I don't believe the 4 strokes were finally competitive until the 450F's came around. Even the YZ400F and YZ426 were brutes that would wear the rider out and had trouble competing with the smokers. It took a full 200cc handicap and years of technological advancement before they could beat the 2 strokes straight up

That's what I meant. That given what we know now. That if the rule that was on the books from the 70's until 1994, in 2010 would probably be perfect today.  It was only a 4 year span from when they upped the rules to 550 to Doug Henry. So for a 4 year rule, it messed up a 30 year rule.  If they would have made the rule back to original in 1999 when Doug Henry won on the 400f, today we would have about 50/50 of 2 and 4 strokes out there.  I still can't figure out the logic in the room when they shot out the cc rule after Doug won. Ok, guys, Doug Henry just won on a 400F, and we all know the bike is gonna only get better. So let's make it 450cc... 

Gotcha, i see what you meant! i can't help but wonder that if all manufacturers had never stopped developing 2 strokes mx engines, if they had thrown as much development dollars at them as the 4 strokes, whether even a 450F would be able to hang with a 250 2 stroke. I mean KTM is the only one of the very big manufacturer's to continue. If the whole world was still developing them (not just for snowmobiles) i have a feeling we'd see some incredible advances.

[miedosoracing]

Totally agree. The 2 strokes would have different fueling most likely, which would cut down on some of the fouling or seizing of the motors. The bikes would be faster. KTM's is at 51 hp.  I think in 2005, they didn't even fathem that, and said they had peaked. So I agree. But from what I was told, the main reason you didn't see any more 2 strokes on Honda's floor wasn't because of lack of sales etc.  It was because they felt it was truely pulling sales away from the 4 strokes.  The 2 strokes were cheaper, thus some people went for cost over anything else.

[G-MONEY]

Don't worry about the black choppers I got the Barrett trained on them. Head shots only Braaaraap!

[MXLord327]

2-Strokes & .50 Cals, my 2 favorite things!!  Well, next to ..... (Family site, I think you know what I mean, ha ha!)

[TMKIWI]

Hi Big Boar, welcome to the site.
I wasn't throwing insult's, I just saw that you were new to this site and thought you may have got lost 

I posted the IT v TT vid the other day ( you need to check all the boards Turquine ) .

I have the same TT and know what its like to try and hang on to it 
I am trying to swap it for a pre 85 125 but no takers at the mo.

Nice bike you have there.
Pity your not closer or we could jack up a race together.
I don't mind coming second.

[Recovered]

Thanks for the welcome. I wasn't speaking about or to anyone in particular just an observation about how these things get sometimes.

[graham472]

You do already have that they are GP 125 road race bikes, the Aprilia RSW125 and the discontinued KTM FRR125 both make in the vicinity of 55HP on the wheel. The Aprilia/KTM 250's (09 was the last year of 250GP :'( ) make over 110HP at the wheel. Unreliable, well most survive a weekend at 14,000rpm that's all that matters. Parts are expensive and light but who wouldn't want a 110HP 100kg bike?

http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_1004_marco_simoncelli_gilera_rsa250/index.html

Wow!!! Carbys on the gp bike Who woulda thought........