What is your idea of a good rule change?

[Recovered]

I assume this poll is about nation event classes. Let me know if I am incorrect.

125 (any stroke)
250 (any stroke)
Open (500c's max, single cylinder)

40 minute plus 2 lap motos.

[Recovered]

in the uk their is a massive push for a 125class 250class 500class to bring back the interest to the sport, mx3 is a joke and the GPs are losing money for the promoter he,s a great bloke and cant understand why people are not attending the GPS.The old 500 class was a massive event and the crowds where huge.But the Japanese want it to stay like it is,I was told by someone quite high up in one of are ruling body's that they have to do what the factory's want in case they take away their support .   

The piblic has been lied to, and most are too young to know better. The was class was THE premier class. That's what you went to watch. That's why you paid the money.

Of course Japan loves the status quo. For the most part the Japanese were not big players in the open class (certainly not Yamaha and Suzuki, and until they brought in Euro riders who understood HOW to correctly ride an open class 2T, neither were Honda and Kawasaki) and their "ultra-modern" (outdated technology by real racing standards) 450's just couldn't compete with an open class 2T.

[JETZcorp]

The Japanese and Europeans definitely had different ideas on how to run things.  There is a story I heard from a guy who was fairly deep into the workings of Husqvarna back in the day, and he said that Husky invited some guys from the Japanese factory to check out how they did things.  It was a sort of "welcome to the industry" gesture.  They expected to be invited to Japan to balance the deal and make the sharing of information and ideas complete.  That never happened.  They went in, took notes, and went back.

It's said that when Maico built the 490, every one of the Japanese factories bought more than one of them, tore them apart, and tried to figure out how in the hell the Germans had made a bike with more peak horsepower, and a LOT more low-end power without even using reed-valves.  Notice that KTM was the only bike-maker that had a "490-class" bike in '81 besides Maico.  By '82, everyone had scrambled about, poured tons of money into it, and made a 480, 490, or 500.

When MX was a totally European game, you grew up on one kind of bike and moving to a new brand was a totally new experience.  A Bultaco was completely different from a Husqvarna, which was different from Ossa, which was different from Maico, which was different from CZ.  Each brand had their own policy of how to go fast, by building an invincible bike, a good-handling bike, a super-powerful bike, etc.  Ten years later, the acronym UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) is common.

All this doesn't really have anything to do with policy changes, but I just felt like letting out my rant about Japanese bikes.  To be fair, I guess I should point out that my beloved Maico had a prototype 4T MX bike in the late '70s.

[JohnN]

1- Equal displacement for all classes and strokes of bikes - Because anything else is a compromise and will never be fair.

2- No homologation rule (this rule limits motocross racing to a select few, by requiring that manufacturers be very big to compete) (for those that don't know, a manufacturer must pay the AMA approx. $40,000. to be allowed to race their machines and have at least 400 bikes manufactured and on showroom floors, virtually eliminating any one but the Big 5)

3- Longer motos - This would separate the men from the boys. A 30 minute moto is not so difficult to do as a "sprint" it's that last 15 minutes that you'll see the guys that are in tip-top condition and some serious changes in who finishes at the front.

4- Eliminate the T-shirt monopoly at the pro events - If you want to buy a shirt at the races there is only one company to buy them from. Now if you happen to like their designs, great! But why not have a choice? At MASCAR races each racer can sell their own merchandise.

In many cases this is of great value to the racer. Imagine being able to buy something direct from your favorite racer and that money went directly into helping him get to the next race or compete in the entire series. In fact I would probably buy shirts if I knew that the rider benefited, because right now I don't!

Besides before I spent $30 on a t-shirt, I'd rather buy a team style mechanic shirt for $50.

5- Three classes 125cc - 250cc - Open class

[JETZcorp]

Regarding homologation, I don't think it should be eliminated entirely.  That would make it even easier for the Big 5 to dominate.  Imagine all you have to to is present a bike to race, without selling it to the masses.  Yamaha invests $1,500,000 in a single bike with 80 horsepower, titanium frame, running on Nitromethane and equipped with a supercharger and hands it to James Stewart.  Yeah, let's see Mom and Pop Bike Co. compete with that.  I think they should be required to sell 50 bikes worldwide of the kind being raced.  That would allow smaller guys to compete, and give us great racing technology like we saw with NASCAR in the past.  Admit it, everyone here wants to get their hands on a Hemi Superbird or Boss 429 Mustang.

[JohnN]

Not so sure that you would have to be concerned with;

running on Nitromethane and equipped with a supercharger

These items would be covered by other rules.

As for being concerned about the Big 5 putting big bucks into a machine and being better than everyone else, what do you think the current rules allow?

While the intention of the rule is to even the competition by using so-called "production" bikes, makes sense and gives the impression that a privateer can compete with the factories, it does not on any level.

First the most important area of a race bike is the suspension. I know everyone loves to talk about horse-power and needing more and more and that this is the path to winning races, but without properly tuned suspension all that power will go to waste.

But it's more than just the components of the suspension that are different (the stuff the factories use is nothing like the stuff that us humans have, it only looks similar) it's the hours and hours of testing to tune it for both different conditions and different riders. It is personally tuned to each situation. Most racers set it and forget it, never changing the settings, adjusting the sag, changing the oil or writing down hat works for each track. This is the area that the factories excel in.

Next up is the engine. These guys put a ton of research and development into these new four-stroke time-bombs. They are tuned to produce the most power possible and last for the one day of racing. (which sometimes they don't even make it through practice) These factories have 6 to 10 factory prepared motors sitting in cases ready to be bolted into their bikes in just a few moments.

The point is that they already have every advantage already. The fact is that can out-spend any privateer by a factor of 1,000 or more.

Believe it or not there is only so much power that can be extracted out of a specific sized engine. And there are compromises to be made. When you get top power usually you don't get easy to control and of course the opposite is also true.

Believe it or not there are small "mom-and-pop" shops that already do build the motors for some of the factories. These folks are their highest kept secret!!

The problem stems from the fact that the four-strokes cost significantly more when modified to compete at the highest levels of racing. This puts small manufacturers and "mom-and-pop" shops that could actually compete with them at a huge dis-advantage. Because they don't have the money to have 6 spare motors all built up....

Change just one aspect of racing.... equal displacement... then all of a sudden eliminating the homologation rule wouldn't matter. The small guys could at least afford to race. And possibly even compete and win.

Then it wouldn't be about "throwing" money at something to make it better, it would be about creativity, skill and thinking outside the box. It would open many more doors than it would close.

Man... I just looked up... sorry to ramble for so long!!

[westyzkx]

Hey, I was thinking, maybe, we need to chuck all of these ideas out the window soon, think about electric bikes coming into play soon, i mean we have three companies coming with promising bikes, we have KTM(very creative company, should be interesting to see what happens), we have zero motorcycles(making 10 more ft/lbs of torque than a crf 450) and Quantya swiss electric dirt bikes

Electric bikes ..lol I want a bike with feelings and sound... not for me.

Yeah I agree

[Recovered]

The Japanese and Europeans definitely had different ideas on how to run things.  There is a story I heard from a guy who was fairly deep into the workings of Husqvarna back in the day, and he said that Husky invited some guys from the Japanese factory to check out how they did things.  It was a sort of "welcome to the industry" gesture.  They expected to be invited to Japan to balance the deal and make the sharing of information and ideas complete.  That never happened.  They went in, took notes, and went back.

It's said that when Maico built the 490, every one of the Japanese factories bought more than one of them, tore them apart, and tried to figure out how in the hell the Germans had made a bike with more peak horsepower, and a LOT more low-end power without even using reed-valves.  Notice that KTM was the only bike-maker that had a "490-class" bike in '81 besides Maico.  By '82, everyone had scrambled about, poured tons of money into it, and made a 480, 490, or 500.

When MX was a totally European game, you grew up on one kind of bike and moving to a new brand was a totally new experience.  A Bultaco was completely different from a Husqvarna, which was different from Ossa, which was different from Maico, which was different from CZ.  Each brand had their own policy of how to go fast, by building an invincible bike, a good-handling bike, a super-powerful bike, etc.  Ten years later, the acronym UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) is common.

All this doesn't really have anything to do with policy changes, but I just felt like letting out my rant about Japanese bikes.  To be fair, I guess I should point out that my beloved Maico had a prototype 4T MX bike in the late '70s.

You've got a pretty good head on your shoulders for a young guy (assuming that's YOU in the Husky video with the "up and down thingy" stuff) but you missed alittle something, possibly just becasue you were too young.

For some reason, the euro's were not into 125's. Maico hardly made any (or just didn't bring many to the states) that I know of so it was Bultaco, Husky even Carabella (may not be spelled correctly, but I remember them having a 125), maybe Montessa (could have been a Rickman I remember), Maybe Ossa don't remember CZ etc. The euro's focused on 250's and open bikes, becasue the open class was THE class. One complaint that Danny "Magoo" Chandler had was that he was riding a production bike. Maico didn't even want (nor would the factory let them as I remember) the teams using Wheelsmith brake pieces or pipes etc. They were essentially production bikes that were competitive with anything Japan had.

Screw that homolagation rule. Let anyone who is in displacement compliance ( and a few other rules such as fuel etc.), bring back 40 + minute plus 2 lap races and that would hurt the 4T as well.

[JohnN]

Some of the European manufacturers did have competitive 125's, unfortunately some were not so good.

A few that made them basically used their 250cc bikes, put in a different crank and a 125cc top end and had a 125. CZ did this, Husky did it... it worked on the Husky, which was an awesome bike (back in the day and they now have a new one) But not so good on the CZ.

Maico did make a specialized 125 but it was very limited production.

Carabella was a Mexican manufacturer that basically copied the Honda CR125 (1973 - 1975 era) and was somewhat successful. Plus their bike was less expensive than the Honda.

Then there were the Italians. The Ammerachi factory built bikes for Harley Davidson in the 1970's. That's how HD had two stroke bikes. Then there was Cagiva, TM and some others in the later 1970's.

From some insider information that was passed on to me, the Japanese factories had some of their bikes built by these factories!!

[Recovered]

Some of the European manufacturers did have competitive 125's, unfortunately some were not so good.

A few that made them basically used their 250cc bikes, put in a different crank and a 125cc top end and had a 125. CZ did this, Husky did it... it worked on the Husky, which was an awesome bike (back in the day and they now have a new one) But not so good on the CZ.

Maico did make a specialized 125 but it was very limited production.

Carabella was a Mexican manufacturer that basically copied the Honda CR125 (1973 - 1975 era) and was somewhat successful. Plus their bike was less expensive than the Honda.

Then there were the Italians. The Ammerachi factory built bikes for Harley Davidson in the 1970's. That's how HD had two stroke bikes. Then there was Cagiva, TM and some others in the later 1970's.

From some insider information that was passed on to me, the Japanese factories had some of their bikes built by these factories!!

I heard the very same thing.