Motocross Simulator

[JETZcorp]

If you're into flight sims or racing sims, this may interest you.  It is the most realistic attempt ever made at simulating the physics of a motorcycle on dirt.  Even the gyroscopic effects of the wheels was taken into account, allowing you to do spectacular whips and scrubs the REAL way - by controlling the bike.  There are no button combos or any of that nonsense.  You control the movement of the handlebars, throttle, brakes, and clutch, and the rest is up to you.  If you want to lean right, be prepared to steer left, just like in reality.

So far, only 125s and 250Fs are simulated.  Most of the fast guys rode 250Fs for a long time because (obviously) there's simply more power to be had.  However, now that new and attractive 3D models are released for the YZ125 and 125SX, with a KX125 and CR125 in progress, two-strokes are starting to be more and more common.  Their light weight and quick-revving characteristics are there in the simulator, and we're starting to see the newer two-stroke fans getting fast enough to compete with the insane experts.

Here's the homepage, you can download a demo version from here.
http://www.mxsimulator.com/

Here's a video of the game, brought up-to-date with modifications available from the community.
Mx Simulator - Mittocs Reborn

[2smoker]

Good find bros!!!!!! Thanks!

[JETZcorp]

I have to warn you guys that this is, bar none, the most difficult simulator ever made.  People can talk all they want about Richard Burns Rally and Falcon 4.0, but I've played them and I can report that an RM125 is a real SOB compared to the F-16 or Mitsubishi Evo.  But, because of this, it's also got great satisfaction.  MXS holds the record for "game I've been mad at the most" and for "game I've been thrilled with the most."  Also, after playing it a lot over the winter, I noticed a marked improvement in my riding when the next riding season came around.

[JohnN]

JETZcorp - I need a little more of an explanation, you see I don't really play any video games. At the beginning of the personal computer revolution I did try a flight simulator program and to be honest I was bored.

I did try the Wii version of the MX thingy.... and all I did was crash at high speed every where... it was great for a barrel full of laughs (in fact my sides hurt from laughing so much) but it did not look or feel very much like actual riding/racing.

I watched the video and it brought up one aspect of "new" style motocross that I don't really care for - which is these tremendous jumps. When did motocross actually turn into a freestyle competition? I miss the type of tracks that required skill (stuff like off camber sections, flat hair pin turns, switchback sections, etc) throttle control, clutch use and gear selection. Up and down hills, through mud sections... well you get the idea.

Sure the new jumps do require some skill, but once you learn the correct gear for a jump (especially with a four stroke) hitting the jump every lap is easy. That is once you build up the guts to jump that far and high. Plus I don't like the fact that it opens the opportunity for racers to be seriously hurt.

I know that may be an un-popular sentiment, but I just don't get it.

Today's tracks are all about rhythm. The Supercross tracks are worse. If you want rhythm, play an instrument!! The idea od building a track that is challenging (at least in my eyes) is to have something where there is no where to "rest" (when your in the air, you're not doing much work... well at least not some racers! LOL) and is set up purposely that there is no rhythm. That is considerably more challenging.

Back to the sim in question. What kind of controller does this thing use? Is it a set of handle bars? What about shift and rear brake?

My biggest beef with video games is that the controls are so different from reality. Example - Eddie Van Halen can play guitar for real, but sucks at Rock Band... his ex-wife kills him in Rock Band!! Why? Because it's not playing a guitar, it's flicking a toggle switch... it's not the same.

Also in order to do well in Rock Band you have to play to the rhythm of the game, but folks like EVH have their own sense of rhythm (it's what sets them apart from the masses and hence is the reason for their greatness) I maintain that the same is true of the best motocross racers as well.

Back to the bike analogy... if your not using controls similar to what you use on a bike, what's the point? The only benefit I can see is that it could sharpen your reflexes by allowing you to experience the illusion of riding.

So please, can you explain to me the mechanics of this simulator game??

Thanks!

[JETZcorp]

Let's start off with the jumping thing.  The problem I faced in finding a good video to show is that whenever someone wants to make a video demonstrating their skills in MXS, they put together a big montage of how good they are at tossing the bike around in the air.  Almost every single video out there is like this.  The style of riding you adopt in the sim, like in real life, depends on the track.  The community has made reproductions of Lierop, Unadilla, Washougal, etc. which aren't very "jumpy" but quite rough and difficult in the good old motocross way.  Below is a newer video which shows simple online racing, so you can get a feel for what it's like most of the time.  All of the tracks featured here were made by the users for the users, and are available for free.

Mx Simulator Track Contest Review

As for the controls, that is a bit of a problem.  There isn't a handlebar controller that's really available, or at least, if there is no one uses it.  Most guys play with an Xbox 360 controller and have good success.  I play with a Saitek X-52 joystick-and-throttle like you'd see in an F-16 jet.  I'm perhaps not as agile as the other guys, but it's allowed me to earn the nickname, "You consistent bastard!"  You'll definitely have to get used to whatever controller you use.  Some of our really fast guys are keyboard wizards, though I don't recommend that.

The way it helps you ride isn't really through the control, it's in knowing the bike.  If you've never jumped before, MXS will give you a good understanding of how it works, how the bike will respond to steering, throttle, and brake adjustments in the air, and the difference between landing and the ER.  You'll get a feel for how body position will affect grip (or not) on the tires, so you can be in a better position to experiment with power-slides, launching from the start gate, etc.  More important, perhaps, than all of that, you'll become versed in line selection.  With MXS, you can spend hours riding and racing without having to worry about crashing, and your line selection instinct will become sharper.  Granted, if you're Gary Semics, the sim isn't going to teach you shit.  But a large number of the people on the MXS forums report an improvement in their riding, particularly in line selection.

[Hondacrrider]

Wow, this looks pretty cool, i thought this might be a prototype, like an actual dirt bike(well, no motor and such, but a rolling chassis I guess) on a platform and you actually have to shift your weight, and physically twist the throttle, now hear is something that would help riders bucketloads, especially for riders in Canada, and the northern US, is this game for the pc, or another game system?

[JETZcorp]

It's PC-only at the moment.  In stock form, you can ride quite comfortably on a low-end system because the default models are pretty basic.  The big thing that eats away performance is the number of bikes on the track.  A fairly low-end system can handle five AI riders decently.  Crank it up to ten and all those physics calculations (yes, the AI riders obey all the physics you do) start to take their toll.  If you want to run 40 riders on a track, you'll probably have to give NASA a call and see if they'll let you rent one of their computers.

That said, in online play, the positions of the riders are just fed to you through the internet cable, so your computer doesn't have to deal with all the physics, and you can get good results with more riders.  If you download a bunch of high-res skins and detailed models for the bikes, you can still have a problem, but it's not as bad as with AI.  Online play is really what makes this sim sizzle, because no matter how good you get, there's always someone who consistently turns in lap times within one second of yours.

[JohnN]

While it sounds good in theory, it does not make sense, at least to me for two very big reasons.

1st because pressing little buttons is different than, controlling a machine. Thinking that using a simulator without the exact same controls as real life does not train your brain properly for actual racing. Keyboard input? Joystick input?

Just look at the military and NASA, their simulators are set up so that the controls are EXACTLY the same as the real thing. Why? Because by performing these simulations over and over again, you train your brain to react, without having to think about it.

Now I don't know what your level of experience in motorcycle racing is, but this is the "secret sauce" that the very top racers have been using since the very beginning. To train themselves to react instinctively. To do that properly the training experience must be exactly the same as reality.

Video games are great fun... but they are not training for racing motocross. Like I said before it will sharpen your reflexes a bit and be tons of fun, but it's just not the same.

2nd - It is PC based... without going too far into it, I have been a MAC user since 1990. Sure I've both used and been IT for PC's but for me you can't beat a MAC.

So I guess fortunately for me, I can't use this game at all... which is probably a good thing!

If you want to learn the proper techniques for racing a motorcycle, watch... no I mean really watch closely.... how the fastest riders get around the track. Usually they are doing some very subtle things that take a great deal of practice.

Want to learn the physics of riding a dirt bike? Ride!! First and foremost. Second get every DVD you can that shows proper techniques and training for racing. Third go to every motocross school that you can. Just because a guy was not National caliber, does not mean they are not a good coach.

While I was at the top of my racing ability, I was pretty fast, my talent was in observing the best riders and putting what they were doing into words. A few guys that took some of my advise (at the time) became very good racers.

Go out and ride!!

[JETZcorp]

I'm not saying it's as good as riding a real bike.  It's way, WAY off that mark.  But it is a lot better for riding skills than sitting around and listening to The Clash.  I don't know what sort of climate you have to deal with, but here in Oregon, riding in December is suicidal.  That sounds a bit over-dramatic, but there is seriously nothing to stop one from taking one of your favorite riding roads and walking away from the bike buried up to the cylinder in goo.  Out where we normally ride, the soil forms what we call "Maupin Mud" (named after the nearest town) which collects on tires.  As you ride on the stuff, you can feel the bike get taller and taller, and it'll eventually make the bike un-ridable.  Rather than spending the first three months re-learning what I'd forgotten over the summer then having two rides in August to make progress, MX Simulator has allowed me to keep a basic feel for how a bike interacts with terrain, and allowed me to actually gain experience when riding, rather than re-gaining it.

Still, that's just a side-benefit.  It's not there to make you a better rider, it's there to have fun.  Just today, I told myself I'd do three laps at Washougal, and before I knew it, I finished Lap 15.

[JohnN]

Hey JETZcorp - I didn't mean to come across as a jerk or anything.... if you enjoy the game that's awesome. Enjoy!

Yes I can relate to the weather in Oregon, I'm in New York. Currently the temperature is in the upper-20's and there is a wonderful snow/ice pack covering the ground. Looks great for Christmas, but not ideal for riding.

With the holidays it's kind of hard to get any riding in, but we have an indoor track that's about 2 hours away. I'll be heading over there in January.....

[JohnN]

.... you know I just thought about this a bit more....

You know what would be awesome?? A "controller" that was set up like a motocross bike. With controls that reacted just like a real machine. Adjusted to your input, etc.....

Obviously this would be ridiculously expensive to build, but would be tons of fun and give a better feeling of the racing experience.

Especially for those long, long winters in the great white North!!

[Hondacrrider]

.... you know I just thought about this a bit more....

You know what would be awesome?? A "controller" that was set up like a motocross bike. With controls that reacted just like a real machine. Adjusted to your input, etc.....

Obviously this would be ridiculously expensive to build, but would be tons of fun and give a better feeling of the racing experience.

Especially for those long, long winters in the great white North!!

Haha, I think i had just said that, like a real flight simulator that they use in the military, but dirt bike version, it would be a lot cheaper than an indoor track

[JohnN]

Yeah!!

No Noise! No injuries! (well except falling of the bike interface cause your laughing so hard!) It would take up very little space.

Hell what's not to like... Now someone has to try and build one! Hmmmm... wonder where I can get a cheap modern frame with triples and plastics.....

[JETZcorp]

That was discussed in the MXS forums.  I think one guy was seriously considering making one, but I haven't heard anything since.  In the meantime, I've been lobbying for TrackIR support in the game.  It would transform the way body movements are done in the game!

TrackIR Explained

[JohnN]

Now that's pretty damn cool!

Building a bike interface should not be super difficult because in reality there are few controls. Throttle, front brake, clutch, handle bars, shift lever, rear brake.... the tougher part would be programing the movement of the "frame" of the bike.... and more importantly how that is mounted or controlled.

Something along the lines of a child's rocking horse, although there would be no gyroscopic effect....

It's cool to think about!