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Offline Stusmoke

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Is This the Future?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2013, 11:14:14 PM »
Is this the future? God I hope not...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline LukeG

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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2013, 12:27:00 AM »
Would one of these bike complete a full 30+ minute moto? What if it's wet? There was a photo floating around a while ago with an electric bike being charged by a petrol gennie. The day they complete a race like Erzberg or even better Romaniacs I might start to take electic bikes seriously. At this years Isle of Mann TT they were crapping on about how fast the evolution of the electic bikes are coming but they only race over one lap, not four or six like all of the other races.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2013, 05:19:12 AM »
Facepalm, if it works in a muddy enduro event it would do the whole moto.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline LukeG

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« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2013, 06:16:32 AM »
I should engage my brain a little better before I bash the key board, I was refering to how much extra power is sapped in wet or sandy conditions and how much that could affect battery life and the bike being able to complete a long moto race.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline citabjockey

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Is This the Future?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2013, 02:27:03 PM »
Zero states 50+ Hp (which is good to go for any mere mortals like us) and 70 fl-lbs of torque  :o, OMG!

It clearly has enough beans to clear triples.

But it weighs too much, costs too much (re purchase),  and only has 9" of travel. Not a real MX bike yet -- despite the model being named "MX".

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Yamaha CT3, RT3, MX125, SC500, Toy Prius, Diesel F250 (it all balances out)

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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Is This the Future?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2013, 04:46:48 PM »
Zero states 50+ Hp (which is good to go for any mere mortals like us) and 70 fl-lbs of torque  :o, OMG!

It clearly has enough beans to clear triples.

But it weighs too much, costs too much (re purchase),  and only has 9" of travel. Not a real MX bike yet -- despite the model being named "MX".

I could be wrong...but according to the "special" showing Jay Leno's Zero, the you tube infomercial from Australia comparing it to 125's, and my own checking it out for possible "someday" purchase...it is lighter than a 125. It is about $10k (all prices here are US) but also had Bush's $4k tax break - that because (like all Bush plans) was not thought out well and allowed all the dealers to cash in on all the bikes delivered and then sell the Zero at less than $6k.

Here is the problem (currently) though...Although a new battery would last a moto, it takes 6 hours to charge to you'd need minimum 2 batteries (which does not include practice or other qualifying sessions). Each additional battery is/was when I checked $2.5k...and like all these battery powered toys, the batteries lose efficiency over time so you'll be replacing them often.

Having gone down the competitive remote control car road, I can compare what it takes to run these things. I was in a competitive group, but by no means national caliber. We would use 1 new motor for every main event. It would then be relegated to a qualifying motor. We would then use it for 3 events qualifying and relegate it to a practice motor. If I remember right, a motor was about $50. Batteries were pretty much on the same schedule except that they were only used for a single qualifying event. we assembled our own batteries from cells but I think you could buy completed for $50.

Without advancement in battery technology or a drastic fall in prices, and correlating it to my RC car experience - my estimate for a season was $6 for the bike and an additional $15k for the batteries. And that is conservative hoping the motors are repairable/replaceable under warranty. Think about your equivalent fuel costs and see if it compares.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline citabjockey

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Is This the Future?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2013, 05:04:56 PM »
Thanks VBS -- that is the missing piece of my napkin analysis a couple of posts down. It all really hinges on how the drive components hold up. If that fancy Zero motor of theirs goes belly up often gas wins with no questions at all.

So in your RC car experience, what was degrading in those motors to cause you to swap them out so often?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Yamaha CT3, RT3, MX125, SC500, Toy Prius, Diesel F250 (it all balances out)

Offline lauterbacher

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« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2013, 07:50:00 PM »
I'm not speaking for vintage at all, But I've did the r/c RC stuff in almost all facets. If he was talking about brushed motors that was a while ago but that would apply. But the folks in the R/C world that are pushing the envelope in electric are the airplane folks who are flying R/C jets and are knocking on the door of repl
acing turbines not on the small scale which has done. But on the the large scale. Big and heavy jets.
     There issue is not the motors at all now, It's the ESC's that do the switching of the current from the battery to the motor giving it a smooth spool up. And they have a lot of issues with the high end units which would translate to the motorcycle and if there is jamming or to much bogging those current spikes big time and fries the controller. Those babies cost and I would be interested in knowing how much the controller on that Bike costs to replace besides the battery which has it's limiting virtues and there is not much on the horizon for replacing the lipo batterys and making the next big jump.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2013, 09:25:48 PM »
The only thing limiting electric vehicles is battery tech, and there is no visable fix in the next 20 years.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline rlaj1004

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Is This the Future?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2013, 10:01:05 PM »

[/quote]
I but also had Bush's $4k tax break - that because (like all Bush plans) was not thought out well and allowed all the dealers to cash in on all the bikes delivered and then sell the Zero at less than $6k.
[/quote]
Hahahaha, say it isn't so, a politicians plan that was not thought out well. I could add a few to that from the buffoon that's making plans now.
Washington DC needs an enema
 :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2013, 09:15:33 AM »
With the RC cars, we replaced brushes but never bothered with stators or bearings. They were just too small. But yeah, all that same crap that goes bad in your car's alternator and starter is the same in any electric motor.

I was just at the Zero site brushing up (pun intended) and batteries are still $2.5k+. Althought the bike is priced at $9, this years incentives (tax break) are only 10% up to $2.5k. There is another incentive in play for 30% refund on charging equipment (which iis $600+ for the Zero and requires a seperate connector - not included.). Also charging up to 95% can be done in 1 hour. Guess you still need that second (and maybe third) battery if you go to the races. I guess Bush was a little 'greener' than Obama (pun intended)...

I didn't find parts information for the Zero. I did for the Oset however. Motors are less that $150 (biggest 750w) and controllers are $50. Also amazingly is that every part to include the wiring harness and frames are available for sale. The Oset doesn't use fancy plastic powerpacks. They use $42 12 batteries in series and have a canvas/nylon bag that mounts in the frame. Gas Gas and Beta electric bikes are much the same. Now Oset has the 2.0 - an 20" trials bike for bigger kids. That is the size of your standard BMX bike. That sounds just right for me!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2013, 09:42:12 AM »
They use $42 12 batteries in series and have a canvas/nylon bag that mounts in the frame. Gas Gas and Beta electric bikes are much the same.

Insert weight figure...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2013, 10:59:47 AM »
Sorry, didn't finish typing that correctly. They use $42 12 VOLT batteries in series. The 12.5 has 2 and the 36V 16 has 3. (Obviously the 20.0 at 48 volt uses...4.)

Yes, there are heavier batteries. They are the same ones used in your kids plastic ride on toys. The little Oset 12.5 is like 48 lbs total. Almost double that for the 20.0. I'm sure the Zero's batteries are lighter. They better be for $2500.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk