Looked at two project bikes

[eprovenzano]

I went to see two project bikes last night that I was hoping I could flip...  two KTM 250 smokers, one was a 98 the other was supposed to be an 06.  The kicker was the owner wanted them out of his garage, and wanted $1,600 for both and said money talks.  Of course I jumped in the car to go have a peek... 

1st the 98...  It needs new tires, fork gators, all new plastic, seat cover, fork seals, wheel bearing, top end, rad covers, bars, grips levers, and a gallon of de-greaser just to find the engine.  It did fire, but the kick starter return spring was not working.  I could tell it had been sitting for a while.  I started it, and was slowly warming it up, when the owner came over and started twisting the throttle to "clean it out"  So it went from a slow warm up to WFO on a cold engine...  I quickly put it in gear and pulled away...  It ran ok, as I expected it to be a little ruff since it has been sitting for a while.  Overall shape 3.5 out of 10

2nd the 06, well its not an 06, I'm guessing its a 99.  It had the standard forks, but a hydro clutch.  It too needs new tires, fork gators, all new plastic, fork seals, wheel bearing, top end, bars, grips, levers, front master cylinder, (it was duct taped onto the bike), and this one needs 5 gallons of de-greaser just to find the engine. It was an oily mess.  And oh BTW the engine was locked up....  so I also guessing a crank and cranks bearings, and maybe a new cylinder.  He handed me the rear brake pedal which was lying in the corner of the garage??? 

No I didn't make an offer, as I feel they are not worth $1,600...  yes they are project bikes, but what's the value after they've been rebuilt...  Right now I'm thinking they are worth $500.  That plus the cost of parts may be more then the market value when completed.

[cnrcpla]

Once the engine comes out of a bike the bill adds up quickly... Worse case scenario for the "06" is a full engine rebuild. That'll run you about $300 for crank, $50 for main bearings and seals, $200 for a replate (assuming its nikisil) and $150 or so for the top end kit. It'll probably need swing arm bearings, like most older bikes need as soon as the motor comes out, so there's another $50. So your already in it about $750 (that's an estimate, but you get the picture) just to get the motor taken care of. Now you'll still be needing all those other things mentioned above. So, if you could sell the bike for $1,200, you'd need to buy it for about $300 to just make a $150 profit. I don't know if that would be worth it to you, but that seems like a LOT of work, case splitting, bearing pressing, etc, for just $150.

As for the 98, that might be worth it seeing as it at least runs. Some minor carb adjustments, and gallons of elbow grease to get it to look alright and you should be able to flip it for a nice chunk of money (that could go to the '99!) 

Projects are fun, but if your looking to make a profit, blown motors SUCK. Unless your doing a motor swap project. My numbers could be wrong up there, and someone more experienced could point that out, but no matter what you decide, good luck with em and make a build thread if you pick em up 

[eprovenzano]

I agree cnrcpla, to me the value of the two bikes is less than $500.  I assume without asking that the current owner does not have the titles either, so there is another problem.  The 98 needs at least $500 of parts and elbow grease, to become a $900 - $1000 bike.  the 99 needs $1,000 worth of parts to be a $1200 to $1300 bike... 

Potential sales value, $2,000 - $2300, parts $1,500, purchase price $500....  Potential profit if all goes right $0 - $300...  Sorry I a project, but I would also like to get paid for my time and effort...  with such a low profit margin if all goes right...  what if something goes wrong (when was the last time a project came in under budget?) I'm in the hole....  Sorry I think unless he "gives" them to me, I will have to pass.

[TMKIWI]

Bikes are only worth a couple of hundred each. And I would only pay that if I was intending to ride them for a little while to have some enjoyment.
No point in doing all that work if you can't have some fun afterwards.

[eprovenzano]

Exactly.  I'm always on the lookout for a bike to rescue, and flip.  These sadly are not in the range where they can be flipped.  Oh well, I'll keep looking... 

[cnrcpla]

If people listed bikes for what they are actually worth nowadays, projects would be WAY easier to find. You can't even talk them down anymore...

[Stusmoke]

Make a list of everything thats wrong with it, read it out to the owner and point to all the things, and offer him $500 you never know.

[eprovenzano]

I did make a list and a good compelling argument abd made a low ball offer of $350 to which he quickly turned down. Oh we'll nothing ventured nothing gained. I'll keep looking.

[Stusmoke]

Well its his problem really. If you can, post up a warning to the add. copy out what was wrong with it and make a point of how he revved it hard when it was cold. He obviously has no idea what hes contending with and if you save some poor bloke from shattered dreams, its worth it. I think so anyway.

[Coop]

Exactly.  I'm always on the lookout for a bike to rescue, and flip.  These sadly are not in the range where they can be flipped.  Oh well, I'll keep looking...

Too many folks have that same idea, so the days of $300 bikes are past. Now if you buy a cheap bike it is a total rat and needs way more work than it is worth.