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Offline adzski

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500 thoughts
« on: June 11, 2013, 02:34:43 PM »
hey everyone

ok so ive been playing with bikes lately and ive had a hankering to build a either kx500 or cr500.
first of all, what is the better motor and the pros and cons over each other? or are they much and much?

in regards to the cr ive read that the 86? if i remember correctly is the powerhouse of all the years they made?
ive never personally rode one so i really have no clue as to if this is true or so called internet fact! so any information by those who have would be great.

now to its host!

im not sure what frame i want to chuck it into yet. most likely a 450 as im very tall so i need the most height i can get, is a 450 much taller then a yz250? because im flat foot on that.

back to the frame torn between either a crf450 or a yzf450 probably the crf450.
also what would handle better between the 2?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Rm125guy

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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2013, 10:37:51 PM »
I heard the new Rm-z 450 frames are pretty good handling
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2013, 10:40:28 PM »
I heard the 2012/13 250sx frames were the cat's ass  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline Turquine

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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2013, 11:22:44 PM »
It was the 1985 CR500, not the '86, that was the most powerful motor Honda made for the CR500. In general, the KX 500 beats the CR 500s in the real world with a broader powerband and more of it. MXA article here;

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Kawasaki/News/WE-RIDE-SERVICE-HONDAS-KX500AF-TWOSTROKE--1390.aspx

Here's a quote: On the track, the Service Honda KX500AF engine ripped. In comparison to the Honda CR500AF that we tested last year, the Kawasaki engine was hands down faster. Of course this didn?t come as a shock to older MXA test riders. When the two motorcycles were still in production, the KX500 engine trumped the CR500 powerplant and was preferred by every MXA tester
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Lsroutlaw

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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 03:05:11 AM »
I have a 96 Kx500 it is a unstoppable beast. I just got back from a trip in the mountains, 41 bikes most of them Honda 450's, my KX and a Ktm 300 were the only smokers. The 500 laid a beating on every 450 up there! Your friends will hate you cause their 8k bikes can't hang with "a old heavy tank".
We looked up weight at lunch after a morning of the monster stomping them, 96kx500 weighs 220 dry not any heavier then their new 450's!
I am leaning towards a KTM for my conversion only because the two 500Afs I have ridden both vibrated so bad. I have heard the Ktm frames are lighter then the Af frames and steel is the safer bet for the average fabricator. Get one you won't regret it!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Foghorn

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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 05:21:11 AM »
You'll be happy with the KX or the CR. Unless you're doing high speed drags on fire roads on a regular basis, you won't notice any power difference. Both satisfyingly, shoulder separating horsepower for the dark side of a rider. My 84 finner would kick on the 85s and 86s back in the day, but it could have been my devil may care attitude at the time.  I just took delivery of a new Service Honda 500 and couldn't be happier. Dependable, very easy to start once you have the routine down and capable of putting the fear of God into most people.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 09:20:57 AM »
I had an '87 KX500 and the only think I didn't like was the plastic and the vibration. I would think in an aluminium frame, you'd have a hard time holding on to it and no amount of rubber dampners would eliminate it. I would think a steel frame the way to go.

Personally, I would rather find a 500 and update/restore it, rather than convert/build my own. They are still good bikes and Race Tech (et al) can update the suspension to just about as good as you'll get on a new bike. The frame geometry has not changed at all to speak of.

I love my '76 Husky 360 and my '80 Can-Am 400. If I had pillow top grips and maybe some good (antivibration) triples, I'd probably still have my KX500. Now I am about done building an '80 RM400. I know these are old bikes but there are plenty of good deals on '90's 500's out there.

Just one more thing...at the recent Portuguese National in Faial, a guy rode an old CR500 to 7th overall in combined MX1/MX2. It was a borrowed bike, just so he wouldn't fall too far back in points.

(I think I was 27th in MX2)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline TotalNZ

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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2013, 09:27:32 AM »
I had an '87 KX500 and the only think I didn't like was the plastic and the vibration. I would think in an aluminium frame, you'd have a hard time holding on to it and no amount of rubber dampners would eliminate it. I would think a steel frame the way to go.

Personally, I would rather find a 500 and update/restore it, rather than convert/build my own. They are still good bikes and Race Tech (et al) can update the suspension to just about as good as you'll get on a new bike. The frame geometry has not changed at all to speak of.

I love my '76 Husky 360 and my '80 Can-Am 400. If I had pillow top grips and maybe some good (antivibration) triples, I'd probably still have my KX500. Now I am about done building an '80 RM400. I know these are old bikes but there are plenty of good deals on '90's 500's out there.

Just one more thing...at the recent Portuguese National in Faial, a guy rode an old CR500 to 7th overall in combined MX1/MX2. It was a borrowed bike, just so he wouldn't fall too far back in points.

(I think I was 27th in MX2)
The geometry might be the same but the riding position and ergo's of old bikes are vastly different to the new ones.
Older bikes feel like you're locked in one position, like sitting in the bike rather than on it. Hard to move your weight around compared to the new stuff. I hated the feel of my 94 CR till i put extra seat foam in to flatten it out.
I'd definately rather have a new chasis, and we won't even mention the improvement in brakes over the years.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 10:16:46 AM »
Quote
The geometry might be the same but the riding position and ergo's of old bikes are vastly different to the new ones.
Older bikes feel like you're locked in one position, like sitting in the bike rather than on it. Hard to move your weight around compared to the new stuff. I hated the feel of my 94 CR till i put extra seat foam in to flatten it out.
I'd definately rather have a new chasis,...

I don't know I agree with you there. Changing seat foam has been common even back into the '70's (as it is today) to match your tastes. I happen to like taller seat foam (even though I am short) because it is less distance to stand up on the pegs from. Other's like to cut it away to get that wallowing feeling. My '90's YZ's had basically the same (not THE same) gastank/seat position as my '00's YZ's. Even though the foot peg distance apart is the same (and sometimes narrower, the aluminum frames 'feel' fatter (probably because they are wider at the top).

All that said,
Quote
... and we won't even mention the improvement in brakes over the years.
I agree with you there but you could add new brakes/rotor to an older bike.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline adzski

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500 thoughts
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2013, 11:12:06 AM »
ok guys thanks for the input really appreciate it, as for the motor i think i will try grab what ever comes up first as there hard to come by in australia.

and for the frame thinking maybe a yz250 frame as there steel correct me if im wrong. and that may nip most of the vibration in the bud.

ive seen it done before heres a link for all that are curious
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/honda-cr-500-engine-yz-250-frame-/161039279827?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item257eb066d3

but im going to have a while to think before the motor makes its way into my possesion.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline SachsGS

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« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2013, 02:51:22 PM »
I've owned a few Maico 500s and they are very nice, very smooth, very fast and little vibration.

It's just a hunch, but I suspect you'd like the KTM 550. The KTM is a lot friendlier then the CR or KX while being faster as well. Sink some cash into the brakes and suspension and you'd have a nice motorcycle. ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 12:27:29 AM »
ok guys thanks for the input really appreciate it, as for the motor i think i will try grab what ever comes up first as there hard to come by in australia.

and for the frame thinking maybe a yz250 frame as there steel correct me if im wrong. and that may nip most of the vibration in the bud.

ive seen it done before heres a link for all that are curious
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/honda-cr-500-engine-yz-250-frame-/161039279827?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item257eb066d3

but im going to have a while to think before the motor makes its way into my possesion.



The latest chassis for the YZ250 (2005 onwards) Is aluminium. I had a 2001 YZ250 and its handling was great. Bury the front end into the tightest inside line you can find, wick the throttle and she came out screaming. Awesome frame.

With regards to the motor, everyone I've ever spoken to prefered the KX500 motor. If you can find a KTM 380sx motor, that would also be really sweet. Throwing it into a 2011 onwards KTM mx frame would be even awesomer still.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline adzski

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500 thoughts
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 11:46:16 AM »
ok something has come up :)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kawasaki-Kx500-Motor-complete-Kx500af-not-cr500-cr500af-/200933917101?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec89841ad

but im curious as to whether i would have to run the stock pipe(HATE THE LOOK) or could i run a new 250 pipe or something similiar?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Rm125guy

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500 thoughts
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2013, 05:22:39 AM »
You would have to run the stock 500 pipe because the pipe has back pressure setup for the 500. If you put a 250 pipe on it, it wouldn't have enough back pressure.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Foghorn

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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 05:28:08 AM »
ok guys thanks for the input really appreciate it, as for the motor i think i will try grab what ever comes up first as there hard to come by in australia.

and for the frame thinking maybe a yz250 frame as there steel correct me if im wrong. and that may nip most of the vibration in the bud.

ive seen it done before heres a link for all that are curious
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/honda-cr-500-engine-yz-250-frame-/161039279827?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item257eb066d3

but im going to have a while to think before the motor makes its way into my possesion.



The latest chassis for the YZ250 (2005 onwards) Is aluminium. I had a 2001 YZ250 and its handling was great. Bury the front end into the tightest inside line you can find, wick the throttle and she came out screaming. Awesome frame.

With regards to the motor, everyone I've ever spoken to prefered the KX500 motor. If you can find a KTM 380sx motor, that would also be really sweet. Throwing it into a 2011 onwards KTM mx frame would be even awesomer still.

With all due respect Stu, many I've spoken to have also loved and preferred the KX. Having said that, many more I've spoken too prefer the CR for many reasons. Hence the reason for more forums etc. dealing with the CR for various reasons. Both great bikes, but for many reasons, warranted or not, the CR still trumps.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »