Suzuki EFI 2T

[motoxr377]

So don't give up on us younger guns!

[citabjockey]

As long as you don't give upon the geezers

So don't give up on us younger guns!

[SachsGS]

As quickly as the switch was made to 4T$ the industry could switch back.

Now where's that bottle of Geritol?

[citabjockey]

I think a bunch of the current 4T dominance is driven by a "conventional wisdom" that 4T engines are the only way to meet various governmental environmental pollution regulations -- both those in place now and those that will *probably* show up in the coming years. So the manufacturers think that if the have to spend money on development they should, by and large, not spend it on "dead end" engine configurations. So what put 4T on top may not be what drives a 2T resurgence -- the public be damned.

Now where did I put that steam boiler over pressure relief valve?

As quickly as the switch was made to 4T$ the industry could switch back.

Now where's that bottle of Geritol?

[TMKIWI]

I think a bunch of the current 4T dominance is driven by a "conventional wisdom" that 4T engines are the only way to meet various governmental environmental pollution regulations -- both those in place now and those that will *probably* show up in the coming years.

That is the problem with 2 strokes. The public have this perception that they are "dirty" engines, and it was easy for the manufactors to push the 4 stroke.
The TRUTH is most modern DI 2 strokes have LESS polution then 4 strokes.
It is very hard to change that perception.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

It is not hard to change the perception if the manufacturers WANT to sell it. Advertizing is everything - and I mean everything. Look at Europe (damn hippy tree huggers), they mostly drive (clean) diesels. Yes that is due to diesel being cheaper than petrol but a diesel is CLEANER than a petrol yet you cna still see the particle emissions.

If your ad campaign was "With the new EStuff technology, our advanced 2T engine with our patented bunghole exhaust for a quieter ride is 4x cleaner and twice as much power and the next leading engine at twice it's capacity..." Followed up by "...and we've won championships in America and on the world stage..." You'd be the leading seller by the end of the year.

Marketing sux but if you've got the microphone, that is all the sheeple will hear.

[citabjockey]

That is exactly what would have to happen to make the "2T take over" stick.

BUT -- a manufacturer would be spending millions to develop (and eventually race) said bike and they are already spending lots of cash to keep the 4T development going to keep the existing bikes competitive. If the economy doesn't provide for more $$$ then nobody is going to step up to the two stroke plate and execute that plan.  If it was easy it already would have been done on bikes.

KTM might but they seem to be doing quite well with the existing designs -- i.e. not spending boatloads on brand new 2T technology. Although rumor has it that they have a DI motor ready to rock and roll when Euro pollution regs would require it.

[motoxr377]

I've been eyeballin' them bunghole exhausts.

Mighty fine systems.

[Stusmoke]

My local track is absolutely FULL of RMZs. Its just about all you see. But I agree otherwise, they aren't selling them and it serves them right for pushing their 4 stonks.

[TMKIWI]

It is not hard to change the perception if the manufacturers WANT to sell it. Advertizing is everything - and I mean everything. Look at Europe (damn hippy tree huggers), they mostly drive (clean) diesels. Yes that is due to diesel being cheaper than petrol but a diesel is CLEANER than a petrol yet you cna still see the particle emissions.

If your ad campaign was "With the new EStuff technology, our advanced 2T engine with our patented bunghole exhaust for a quieter ride is 4x cleaner and twice as much power and the next leading engine at twice it's capacity..." Followed up by "...and we've won championships in America and on the world stage..." You'd be the leading seller by the end of the year.

Marketing sux but if you've got the microphone, that is all the sheeple will hear.

Thats not true I am afraid.
BRP spent tonne's of money on marketing the ETEC's about their advantages. And they were Lighter/less emmissions/more torque/less maintanance etc.
People still buy more 4 strokes.
Boats might not be dirtbikes but the same principles apply. More power for less weight.
I should know as I sold them for 10 years.
People are easily brain washed.

[VintageBlueSmoke]

I'm not arguing with you TMKIWI. However, I think that people prefering to continue to buy the 4strokes might have a bit to do with price and brand. Most people who buy boat engines are brand loyal...like pickup truck owners or NASCAR fans. All the talk in the world will not change some red-necks opinion.

[SachsGS]

People in my area have reverted back to 2T snowmobiles, with the odd guy building a 250+ hp 4T Yamaha hill climbing monster.

[Stusmoke]

I'm 17. 18 this year. I'm not one of those people who hangs onto a hunk of BS just cos they're too prideful to admit they're wrong. I liked four strokes, rode em too, then one day crankshaft went boom and I went FTS, walked down the road and bought a bike that was lighter, cheaper to maintain, faster, easier to maintain, better handling, better stopping, better jumping, better sounding, better smelling, more fun to ride, and all that for almost half the repair quote of the CRF.

[citabjockey]

250 HP. That would be two  eTec 600's lashed together, right? 

People in my area have reverted back to 2T snowmobiles, with the odd guy building a 250+ hp 4T Yamaha hill climbing monster.

[TMKIWI]

I'm not arguing with you TMKIWI. However, I think that people prefering to continue to buy the 4strokes might have a bit to do with price and brand. Most people who buy boat engines are brand loyal...like pickup truck owners or NASCAR fans. All the talk in the world will not change some red-necks opinion.

Not quite vintage.
Back in the early 2000's when all the enviromental scare started, most of the outboards were 2 stroke but you could buy 2 strokes/DI 2 strokes & 4 strokes from most manufactors.
2 strokes were still the biggest seller at the start of the decade as 4/S & DI's were 30% dearer, but as it became clearer that 2 strokes were going the be fazed out and petrol prices went up, all the marketing pushed "clean" technology.
Yamaha buyers could buy a 2 stroke, a HPDI 2 stroke or a 4 stroke. Most ended up buying the 4 stroke.
It was easy to convince the public that 4 strokes were clean because everyone has a  4 stroke car,lawnmower etc.
Not saying it is all relevent, just saying what I have observed from another industry.

Not all companies are blind tho. I still find it funny that in 06' Mercury were going to drop the Optimax range (Orbital injection) for the new "designed by Cosworth" (spent millions) Verado supercharged 4 stroke. After magazine test's failed to hide that it was 20% + worse on fuel then their Optimax , they changed their mind. You can still buy an Optimax today.

A DI 2 stroke is quite a wonderful engine when you need power, economy and lightness.