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Author Topic: YZ 250 EFI  (Read 72809 times)

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Offline Uniflow

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YZ 250 EFI
« Reply #180 on: June 24, 2013, 09:46:52 AM »
No, this run was a bit of a **** up, I couldn't find the wire under the tank to put the RPM trace on with out taking the tank off. It was late Sunday afternoon, Dyno was tired as we had spent most of the day tuning the Bighorn. So we only had time to do some quick road speed runs. We are heading back with my standard bike as well as the EFI one for back to back tests. If I had remembered what colour the wire was out of the ignition box I could have clipped the trace on there, never mind next time. The rev limiter is cutting at 9000 rpm, although to be fair I don't think we were quite hitting 9000. The full throttle fueling is too rich I think but up to that point it's running real nice.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline bearorso

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« Reply #181 on: June 24, 2013, 11:02:55 AM »
Just Brilliant!

I'd very much like to see the injector set up, from inside.

Looking at it positioned in the first transfer 'ducts', one could think it's just injecting into that, but, of course, you could have it with a long feeder deeper into the cases, or going to the boost ports, or,  well, anybloodywhere.

 And, of course, you have every right to keep it to yourself.

At first, I imediately thought of the Bimota 500 debacle, with transfer port injectors. But, that was 15 / 16? years ago, rushed into production, and I'd say Any software / hardware has gone through more than few generations of development.

I know you've got a lot on with this, and you're doing a brilliant job ( Bloody Kiwis  :-  ), but have you, are you giving thought to a third injector, in an 'in manifold' position? Or, in a "in side of barrel", projecting up to the combustion chamber, as in the Athena and the secondary Ossa Injectors. Ossa have said that to get the power they want for the Enduro / MX version of their rearward sloper, they are going to at least 3 injectors.

As I said, this is brilliant stuff, it's fantastic to see a 'Do-er', doing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline TotalNZ

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« Reply #182 on: June 25, 2013, 08:07:39 AM »
Rev limiter??? whats that doing on there. Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that totally unnecessary on a 2T?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Uniflow

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« Reply #183 on: June 25, 2013, 09:06:15 PM »
Bearorso, thank you for the encouragement, I have noting to hide in this project and we are just scratching the surface. As you can see we simply placed the injectors here for convenience. I wanted them to the rear of the cylinder but someone placed a reed block there. We now have a small oiler in operation ( you can see by the smoke as we are still running pre mix as well ). This will change shortly to oiler only, no pre mix. We made no adjustments on the dyno just ran it to see how it went. It's way rich up top. We do plan to go back with my carburettored YZ as a comparison and start making changes to the EFI fueling, EFI timing and ignition timing. So far this has been done by rider feel only. Yes computer power and hardware has come a long way since Bimota, it's a pity, they were ahead of the game. I'ts an interesting hobby ( getting out of hand ), I'm mostly posting here to show what can be done. Too may people just say it's impossible without having a close look first. The key will be getting the injectors placing right ( in the cylinder ) and the ultimate injector timing to reduce hydrocarbons out the exhaust, just air lose. There will be plenty of pictures ( inside and out ) of the new engine as it's finished and run.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline bearorso

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« Reply #184 on: June 26, 2013, 09:28:26 AM »
 Yes, too many say things are impossible.

It's just curiosity - I'm not having a go at you for being secretive - though you'd have Every right to be so. You've enough on your hands, and have shown an enormous amount of your work.

When I see the injectors into the rearward of the transfers (3? - I don't know the configuration. of the YZ barrel, just thinking of the most common transfer set up) I think of the shrouding that it might create if the transfer splitters are there still (goodness only knows) as std, or if a long extension of the injector is used to get the charge point out of the one transfer, into the crank / lower case area, thence it doing the 'usual' routing of the charge. Then thinking perhaps, you are locating the main charge in the rear transfers,  using that shrouding, to have the forward transfers predominantly as an 'air' charge to block the fuel charge from exiting the exhaust, like a version of AST.

Yep, my imagination can go wild.................

Cripes, you're brave if you are going to try to run with no premix (re oil metering), although I think you are doing the oil metering to the mains / big end (little end?) Then using a Very Lean premix to lubricate the piston /rings / barrel (little end?)???????

Just rapt at your efforts, fascinated by what you're doing, yourself. Not getting others to do things for you, and just doing a Cad Drawing and dimensions. A Doer, as I said.

Geez I Hate praising Kiwis, they're a 'Orrible mob of bastards................... >:-D somethings gone 'wrong' with me, I'm finding that funny little comedienne, Cal Wilson, quite attractive, nowadays............ I'll be deported soon, for being too tolerant / fond of Un Zudders.  ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Uniflow

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« Reply #185 on: July 12, 2013, 04:57:53 AM »
Well, finally I got to ride the EFI YZ at an Epic Events trail ride today, Taupo / Napier road. Rained all day hard, and bloody cold ( NZ winter ). Worst conditions for a test ride. Also took my standard YZ 250 as a comparison.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline TMKIWI

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« Reply #186 on: July 12, 2013, 05:24:16 AM »
And ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
If you don't fall off you are not going hard enough

Offline Uniflow

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« Reply #187 on: July 12, 2013, 05:59:48 AM »
I couldn't help it, just wanted to see who was watching.  :D
This is feed back from someone ( old ) that rides a normal YZ all the time ( and F9 ) so I'm just relaying what the EFI felt like to me to ride. There has been no adjustments from where you saw it on the dyno, still too rich up top.
If you like " rip, **** and bust" you will not like the EFI, it is more like a YZ250F but with more power! Smooth power delivery all over. If I wanted to win enduros I'd use this bike. Top end both, bikes are similar ( remember the EFI has still not been dyno tuned so there is more power to be had yet ).
You knew I was going to say this but, I like it. ;D
There is video but I was in control of that and it seems half the time the camera was pointing up my nose, plus lots of mud, so we will see if there is anything to post when we down load it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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« Reply #188 on: July 12, 2013, 06:16:28 AM »
I couldn't help it, just wanted to see who was watching.  :D
This is feed back from someone ( old ) that rides a normal YZ all the time ( and F9 ) so I'm just relaying what the EFI felt like to me to ride. There has been no adjustments from where you saw it on the dyno, still too rich up top.
If you like " rip, **** and bust" you will not like the EFI, it is more like a YZ250F but with more power! Smooth power delivery all over. If I wanted to win enduros I'd use this bike. Top end both, bikes are similar ( remember the EFI has still not been dyno tuned so there is more power to be had yet ).
You knew I was going to say this but, I like it. ;D
There is video but I was in control of that and it seems half the time the camera was pointing up my nose, plus lots of mud, so we will see if there is anything to post when we down load it.


My biggest concern is the weight of it, so lets hear it from a working, feasible EFI unit on the YZ250, just how much more does it weigh? Yeah yaeh I know that I can't feel two kilos on the stand, but I can feel it when I divebomb the inside line. The 250SX is already at 216 pounds. In 2011, Prior to KTM giving in to the public demanding something they didn't really understand (PDS linkage), it weighed 212 pounds. Add on whatever EFI ends up being and it adds up. Four stonks get loaded up with all the bells and whistles, making them bloated and fat, two strokes shouldn't.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Uniflow

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« Reply #189 on: July 12, 2013, 08:10:54 AM »
Weight? Throttle body is lighter than a carb but add fuel pump, small battery ( could be a capacitor ) and link unit. Flywheel and stator approx same weight, plus a little wiring. You are looking at around a Kg and a half extra. You won't notice it. Cost is still the big problem.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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« Reply #190 on: July 12, 2013, 09:28:24 AM »
Weight? Throttle body is lighter than a carb but add fuel pump, small battery ( could be a capacitor ) and link unit. Flywheel and stator approx same weight, plus a little wiring. You are looking at around a Kg and a half extra. You won't notice it. Cost is still the big problem.

That, is something I would be well and truly happy with.

When you say it feels like an uber powerful 250F, do you mean it literally? Does it feel mellow and soft, does it feel slower revving, has its "crackability" gone? If so, I'd definitely be after some measure of customization. While an uber powerful 250F powerband on the 250 would be the ducks nuts for hardpacked, flat/offcambered tracks, I'd like some snap back in soft and tight stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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YZ 250 EFI
« Reply #191 on: July 12, 2013, 09:58:16 AM »
If you switch to an oiler only arrangement, do you mean to negate premix entirely? But the smell....  :'( Ahem. How narrow are the spray nozzles? If you left your YZ sitting for a while with say 50:1 premix, wouldn't there be potential for a blockage in the injectors? To be clear, that was an actual question, I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Do you still use the application of air pressure changes to draw fuel/airmixtures into the cylinder during the combustion cycle? If so does that free up the crankcases for a sump arrangement?

Again, I'm not disputing anything, I'm just trying to learn.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


Offline HCE

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« Reply #193 on: July 12, 2013, 01:42:58 PM »
Very cool.  Who makes the pipe guard on the YZ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Stusmoke

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« Reply #194 on: July 12, 2013, 10:28:15 PM »
Very cool.  Who makes the pipe guard on the YZ?

x2 it looks pretty serious. And what the hell was the massive piece of melted gunk?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »