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Author Topic: FINALLY, an industry insider (GP MEchanic) drops the Honda bomb. Straight up.  (Read 15775 times)

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Offline factoryX

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Dude, F1 + 100% Ethanol + 20,000rpm = Lot of fuel burnt :-X. So yes. That is entirely true lmfao. Ethanol has actually been proven to create more carbon due to increased burn rate. Alky is great for racing, but that's about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline Stusmoke

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Dude, F1 + 100% Ethanol + 20,000rpm = Lot of fuel burnt :-X. So yes. That is entirely true lmfao. Ethanol has actually been proven to create more carbon due to increased burn rate. Alky is great for racing, but that's about it.

Thats what I thought... Haha we whinge about how expensive four stroke motocrossers are... 20 thousand RPM in those engines is madness. It must be atleast 100k per race to run those things. I wasn't aware that ethanol resulted in more pollution although now that you point it out it becomes kinda obvious. Pump gas in Australia has ethanol in it sometimes so that doesn't make much sense if the government is hell bent on controlling pollution, why do they put ethanol in it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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OK, so I am not searching for the links but...

Modern 2-stroke dirt bike engines first of all are not regulated for emissions. There is no catalytic converter or other "cleaning" mechanisms. Second, 2-strokes have particle emissions like a diesel; that un-burnt/partially un-burnt fuel and oil escaping out the exhaust. Due to these 2 factors alone make dirt bikes emissions worse than today's cars.

As for comparing it to F1 and again, I am not going to search for the links, that was comparing the entire F1 foot print of a race weekend, not comparing what comes out of the cars. F1 engines are the single most efficient sporting engines on the planet. Yes, they have massive emmisions output, but concidering the amount of power they are creating from such little input, it is amazing. The footprint covers the cars as well as the transporters, the jets, the catering, etc. Considering also that most of the people arrive at an F1 event by plane, unlike motocross which is still predominantly local. So yes, an F1 weekend has a larger footprint than a season of Motocross.

In addition, F1 burns Gasoline, not Ethanol (although I believe it does contain 10% now). Indy Cars are 100% Ethanol. I believe (but again, I'm not looking it up again) that ALMS is E85 for the non diesel cars.

For those that will be in the Houston, TX area or those that were at Indy during the early '00's, the sight of the sky following the event...of all the planes taking off and circling the skys...it is almost worth it to go just to witness it. It is truly a wonder of mankind and kind of resembled Bagdad and Panama during the invasions!

...and Stu, it has gov't involvment has nothing to do with solving pollution problems. The farmers get huge gov't subsidies to grow corn. The oil industry is who makes the ethanol and sells it to us. Those are 2 of the biggest lobbyests...need I say more?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline msmola2002

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Ethanol in oz is made from molasses left over from sugar production, which is a decent use of an otherwise wasted resource. But the diversion of food/corn for ethanol? Yeah, I can't get behind that.

And also like the US there is a political agenda behind the use of ethanol in the fuel - pressure from the greeny/hippy front.

Also - yes F1 uses petroleum based fuel.
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/13C06BF289E0E36FC12579C9003CB5B9/$FILE/1-2012%20TECHNICAL%20REGULATIONS%2009-03-2012.pdf page 66.

Quote
19.4.4 A minimum of 5.75% (m/m) of the fuel must comprise bio-components.
19.4.5 Initially the bio-components are restricted to oxygenates. However, hydrocarbons (as defined
in 19.2) and oxygenates (lying outside the 19.4.3 definition) or mixtures thereof, which have
been produced from biomass, may be included into Formula One fuel as part of the 5.75%
biocomponents quota, provided that a suitable analytical procedure is available for their
quantification and to verify their biological origin. Their use in F1 fuel will be dependent on
evidence indicating that the supplier is genuinely developing these compounds for use in
commercial fuels

and a minimum of 5.75% bio-origin, notwithstanding the other couple of pages of restrictions/requirements.

F1 is also no longer running at 20k, 18k is the limit.

Indy cars run 100% ethanol.
http://www.gosunoco.com/sunoco-racing/indycar/

ALMS depends on class - I was at lime rock and saw a few different kinds. Some was E10, (VP100) and saw some E85. CNG is coming next year.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline factoryX

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OK, so I am not searching for the links but...

Modern 2-stroke dirt bike engines first of all are not regulated for emissions. There is no catalytic converter or other "cleaning" mechanisms. Second, 2-strokes have particle emissions like a diesel; that un-burnt/partially un-burnt fuel and oil escaping out the exhaust. Due to these 2 factors alone make dirt bikes emissions worse than today's cars.

As for comparing it to F1 and again, I am not going to search for the links, that was comparing the entire F1 foot print of a race weekend, not comparing what comes out of the cars. F1 engines are the single most efficient sporting engines on the planet. Yes, they have massive emmisions output, but concidering the amount of power they are creating from such little input, it is amazing. The footprint covers the cars as well as the transporters, the jets, the catering, etc. Considering also that most of the people arrive at an F1 event by plane, unlike motocross which is still predominantly local. So yes, an F1 weekend has a larger footprint than a season of Motocross.

In addition, F1 burns Gasoline, not Ethanol (although I believe it does contain 10% now). Indy Cars are 100% Ethanol. I believe (but again, I'm not looking it up again) that ALMS is E85 for the non diesel cars.

For those that will be in the Houston, TX area or those that were at Indy during the early '00's, the sight of the sky following the event...of all the planes taking off and circling the skys...it is almost worth it to go just to witness it. It is truly a wonder of mankind and kind of resembled Bagdad and Panama during the invasions!

...and Stu, it has gov't involvment has nothing to do with solving pollution problems. The farmers get huge gov't subsidies to grow corn. The oil industry is who makes the ethanol and sells it to us. Those are 2 of the biggest lobbyests...need I say more?

Brosive, 4 stroke dirt bikes don't run Cats either...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »


I ride an 03 yz250, wait 04, wait 05, what ever, they're all the same #$@% YOU!

Offline VintageBlueSmoke

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 :'(

But current 4-stroke dirt bikes also have less regulated emissions than today's 2-strokes. That is the point of the conspiracy.

Yes, I said it.

However, I don't believe it is as evil as it sounds. It has to do with Corporate Image. Honda and the other 4-stroke only companies want to appear Green and they want a return on the investment (or lack of competition on that investment) for being Green.

When they've wrung their money out of the 4-strokes, or the rules and regulations change, or someone comes along with a DI 2-stroke engine that beats them, the pendulum will swing the other way and we'll all be back on 2-strokes since the DI 2-strokes are cleaner than the current 4-strokes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
08 Speed Bird Quad 110, 08 KTM 144, 04 Suzuki LT-Z400, 03 Gas Gas EC, 300,97 Honda CR144, 96 Husky Boy 50, 88 Husky 400WR, 86 Honda CR125R, 80 Can-Am MX6 400, 75 Husky 360CR, 75 Husky 175CC, 73 Penton Jackpiner 175, 72 Husky 250CR, 72 Husky 125, 72 Rickman-Zundapp 125, (2) 71 Bultaco Pursang Mk

Offline Stusmoke

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OK, so I am not searching for the links but...

Modern 2-stroke dirt bike engines first of all are not regulated for emissions. There is no catalytic converter or other "cleaning" mechanisms. Second, 2-strokes have particle emissions like a diesel; that un-burnt/partially un-burnt fuel and oil escaping out the exhaust. Due to these 2 factors alone make dirt bikes emissions worse than today's cars.

As for comparing it to F1 and again, I am not going to search for the links, that was comparing the entire F1 foot print of a race weekend, not comparing what comes out of the cars. F1 engines are the single most efficient sporting engines on the planet. Yes, they have massive emmisions output, but concidering the amount of power they are creating from such little input, it is amazing. The footprint covers the cars as well as the transporters, the jets, the catering, etc. Considering also that most of the people arrive at an F1 event by plane, unlike motocross which is still predominantly local. So yes, an F1 weekend has a larger footprint than a season of Motocross.

In addition, F1 burns Gasoline, not Ethanol (although I believe it does contain 10% now). Indy Cars are 100% Ethanol. I believe (but again, I'm not looking it up again) that ALMS is E85 for the non diesel cars.

For those that will be in the Houston, TX area or those that were at Indy during the early '00's, the sight of the sky following the event...of all the planes taking off and circling the skys...it is almost worth it to go just to witness it. It is truly a wonder of mankind and kind of resembled Bagdad and Panama during the invasions!

...and Stu, it has gov't involvment has nothing to do with solving pollution problems. The farmers get huge gov't subsidies to grow corn. The oil industry is who makes the ethanol and sells it to us. Those are 2 of the biggest lobbyests...need I say more?

Foot print for foot print and I rest my case; no one has the right to whinge about 2 stroke mx/sx being too bad for the earth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »