Coming Soon
Home > Forum


Author Topic: 2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1  (Read 4347 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dogger315

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« on: May 15, 2012, 10:27:05 PM »
I'm putting together a companion bike to my 2008 CR500.  Like the 500, I'm throwing everything
but the kitchen sink at it to try to achieve the equivalent of what Team Honda would be fielding if
they were still racing 250 Ts.

With that in mind, I thought I would do a series of post detailing the "care and feeding" of an all
out CR250 race engine.  The goal is 57-58 hp with a broad useable MX powerband.  I'll post a
segment each week for a total of four weeks.

Here is a list of the specialty work and components:

Everything that rotates has been treated to a Cryogenic REM Isotropic process.  The cryo treatment
strengthens the metal components at the molecular level and the REM removes the peaks and valleys
present on all metal surfaces to yield a much lower coeficient of friction.  The results are nearly bullet
proof gears, etc. with less heat, drag and wear.

Large Steel tranny gears replaced with Titanium gears 

Crankshaft and piston assembly balanced as a unit by Crankworks

Cylinder and cylinder head ported and machined by Tom Morgan Racing

Wiseco GP single ring piston

Complete Hinson clutch with ti springs

Ceramic bearing in clutch hat

VForce 3 reed

Keihin 38mm quad vent air striker PWK with TPS and power jet

Vortex digital multi map IC with auto swapping


Here is part one of the prep and assembly:

The first step to putting everything together is to prep the cases. Honda
castings are generally of high quality, but there will always be flashing and
burrs with anything mass produced. Areas of concern are the crankshaft well
and oil drain hole.



The first step is to remove the bearings to eliminate the possibility of
contaminating them with metal debris. Once the bearing are out, remove
any scratches, flashing or burrs with whatever you feel the most comfortable
using. I used an 80 and 120 grit flap wheel followed by a Brown Scotchbrite
drum on a Dremel, then finished with a Grey Scotchbrite pad and WD40 on
the crankwell. I chamfered the oil drain hole with a carbide burr on a die
grinder.





It?s important to clean the flashing and burrs from the cases, because that
metal will eventually break off and be free to mix with parts you don?t want
it to mix with. Casting flashes and scratches are also great places for metal
fatigue and cracks to start from stress and vibration.

Once the cases are cleaned up, put the left and right case together and use
a .002? feeler gauge to check the case face for warpage. If you can insert the
gauge anywhere between the halves, you will need to lap the surfaces of the
cases. This is known as matching the cases and is important because you
want to eliminate any possible source for air leaks.


Lapping is a machine process where the case half is held against a known flat
surface that contains a special slurry of free abrasives. The desire is to
machine the case half face to a high tolerance while removing as little
material as possible.

Once the case halves are matched, they are ready for bearing installation and
installation of the internals. After the bearings are installed, check each one
in a quiet room for silent and easy rotation. Lube up all the bearings,
especially the shielded mainshaft bearing with gear oil before installing the
gear clusters as a set.


This pictures shows the main and countershaft gear clusters. For this engine
I had all of the washers and snap rings REMed so that everything that rotates
has an extremely low coefficient of friction. Less friction, less heat and less
wear. I?m also using a very high grade synthetic gear oil that is ultra slick
while still retaining all the qualities desired in a gear oil. It features a film
thickness of 75W90 but a friction level as low as ATF ? best of both worlds.


Once the gear clusters are in place, I install the left side case half and check
to make sure the transmission gears spin freely. This is a functional check to
determine if the clusters were assemble correctly.


If everything spins freely, remove the left side case, shift drum, shift shafts,
shift forks and the two gear clusters.

As always, questions and comments are welcome.  Conversely, if no one is interested,
let me know that as well.

dogger



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline cnrcpla

  • Novice
  • *
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 11:04:14 PM »
Awesome engine  :o But what is the purpose of having a single ring piston? Just curious  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline eprovenzano

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 11:14:05 PM »
Excellent write up dogger...  looking forward to seeing the complete build process.   8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline SachsGS

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 04:32:48 AM »
The piston port Hondas run a centre case gasket correct?

It probably doesn't fit with the theme of the build but fuel injection would sure be interesting. ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline dogger315

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 04:18:02 PM »
Thanks guys.
Quote
what is the purpose of having a single ring piston?
Good question.  The single ring piston was developed and used by HRC
and HGA.  From what I've been told, it is lighter and revs quicker while
giving up minimal sealing compared to the two ring set up.
Quote
The piston port Hondas run a centre case gasket correct?
Yes, all Hondas run a center case gasket.  If you are wondering why a gasket
is not visible in the picture, I don't install one for that check.  My concern is
gear cluster assembly.  With these engines it's actually possible to assemble
the two clusters, install them in the right side case and they will mesh and spin
freely.  However, when you install the left side case, the tranny binds and
freezes up completely.  The check is simply to make sure The clusters are
assembled correctly because you don't want to find out there is a problem
after the crankshaft is installed and you have to use a splitter to get it back
apart.
Quote
fuel injection would sure be interesting

I'm sure it will be here soon.

dogger 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline scotty dog

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
  • because golf courses should be motocross tracks!
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 04:25:50 PM »
Awesome work as always dogger, great write up and Im definately lookin forward to the rest of this build :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
F**K THE WHALES......................SAVE THE 2 STROKE!!!!

The hardest part about riding a 4 stroke is telling your parents your Gay!!

05 CR 250

Offline cnrcpla

  • Novice
  • *
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 05:46:53 PM »
Quote
Good question.  The single ring piston was developed and used by HRC
and HGA.  From what I've been told, it is lighter and revs quicker while
giving up minimal sealing compared to the two ring set up.
Oh, that makes sense. Let me know if it is worth dropping a ring in an engine.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline eprovenzano

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 05:55:23 PM »
Thanks guys.
Quote
The piston port Hondas run a centre case gasket correct?
Yes, all Hondas run a center case gasket.  If you are wondering why a gasket
is not visible in the picture, I don't install one for that check.  My concern is
gear cluster assembly.  With these engines it's actually possible to assemble
the two clusters, install them in the right side case and they will mesh and spin
freely.  However, when you install the left side case, the tranny binds and
freezes up completely.  The check is simply to make sure The clusters are
assembled correctly because you don't want to find out there is a problem
after the crankshaft is installed and you have to use a splitter to get it back
apart.
dogger

When I replaced the crank in my son's 400ex, I put 1st gear in backwards... It was fine until I installed the clutch...  I took it apart 3 times, and could not figure it out...   >:-D  I asked a friend (machinist) to look at it.  It took him two days before he found 1st gear was in backwards.  It was rubbing against the case. So close yet, not close enough... 

I'm really enjoying the build and can't wait to see the progess.   8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
Eric Provenzano
2019 KTM 300 XCW TPI
2000 KTM 300 EXC (Son's)
2001 KTM 380 EXC
Sold 1991 KDX 200... fun play bike
Sold 1999 KX250
Sold 1999 YZ125 (son's)
Sold 2001 Yamaha TTL 125 (son's 1st bike)
Sold but never forgotten 1974 Honda Elsinore CR250M
Sold 1974 Honda Elsinore CR125

Offline rickdross

  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2012, 04:17:28 PM »
I really enjoy your projects dogger.  They inspired me and I have now bought a 2001 CR250 in a box which I am rebuilding.  Your detailed pictures will make it much easier to figure out my puzzle.  This is the first time I have noticed you using any ceramic bearings.  Where did you buy the ceramic bearing for the clutch hat?  Do you plan on trying other ceramic bearings in the future?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline dogger315

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2012, 02:57:44 AM »
Thanks guys!  Still waiting for the crankshaft to come back from Crankworks so I can finish
the bottom end - should arrive this week.
Quote
This is the first time I have noticed you using any ceramic bearings.  Where did you buy the ceramic bearing for the clutch hat?  Do you plan on trying other ceramic bearings in the future?
I'm not a big fan of ceramic bearings for MX.  I believe they are better suited for something like F1 or
MotoGP where ultra high RPM and the lightest weight is required.  I'm trying this ceramic axial thrust
bearing for the clutch hat to see how much (if any) lighter I could make the clutch pull.  The bearing
is manufactured by Cerobear Ltd. in Herzogenrath Germany.  I don't have any plans to use other
ceramic bearings for MX but my Trek Madone is loaded with them.
Quote
bought a 2001 CR250 in a box which I am rebuilding
Outstanding!  Great bike.  Look forward to seeing your progress reports.

dogger
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline scotty dog

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
  • because golf courses should be motocross tracks!
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 11:49:33 AM »
any progress??  :D hope alls goin to plan
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »
F**K THE WHALES......................SAVE THE 2 STROKE!!!!

The hardest part about riding a 4 stroke is telling your parents your Gay!!

05 CR 250

Offline 2T Institute

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 12:22:50 PM »
  The goal is 57-58 hp with a broad useable MX powerband. 

Everything that rotates has been treated to a Cryogenic REM Isotropic process.  The cryo treatment
strengthens the metal components at the molecular level and the REM removes the peaks and valleys
present on all metal surfaces to yield a much lower coeficient of friction.  The results are nearly bullet
proof gears, etc. with less heat, drag and wear.



Hope your OK with disappointment 55HP is 10HP(20%) up on stock, that is a big ask on a reasonably wel developed engine.

Cryo treatment doesn't strengthen anything, it just closes up the grain structure making the component more thermaly stable. REM style treatments  ave a a downside, those little machining valleys hold oil and oil between metal surfaces is what lowers friction. Treatments like DLC that should work on things like pistons don't as it looses the ability to retain oil.       
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline dogger315

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2012, 03:29:39 AM »
Quote
Hope your OK with disappointment 55HP is 10HP(20%) up on stock, that is a big ask on a reasonably wel developed engine.

Cryo treatment doesn't strengthen anything, it just closes up the grain structure making the component more thermaly stable. REM style treatments  ave a a downside, those little machining valleys hold oil and oil between metal surfaces is what lowers friction. Treatments like DLC that should work on things like pistons don't as it looses the ability to retain oil.

Thanks for your opinions.

dogger
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline Super Trucker

  • Professional
  • *****
  • Posts: 377
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 06:45:11 PM »
Awesome project Dogger, thanks for all the work writing it up so well. TMR is a excellent choice for an engine builder, his cr250 engines where right there with the factory bikes. Where did ya get the titanium gears from ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »

Offline dogger315

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
2000-01 Honda CR250 Race Engine Build Pt1
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2012, 04:55:11 PM »
Thanks ST!
Quote
TMR is a excellent choice for an engine builder
Agree 100%.  He has wrenched and tuned some "legends" to National championships
and earned his rep in the process.
Quote
Where did ya get the titanium gears from
The ti gears were manufactured by a company in Italy called the CRP Group.  They specialize
in exotic metals and reverse engineering.  I took the gears I wanted (all the big heavy ones),
and they reproduced them in Ti-6AL4V.  The bill was staggering, especially when converted
from euros to dollars, but the end product saved a bunch of weight.  A friend of mine has a
HGA works tranny, so I used those gears and ratios for this engine.  The countershaft is OE,
as are the small diameter gears but the mainshaft is ti as well due to the different number of
teeth.  I was fairly confident in the duarbility of the gears since the ti versions were reproduced
from the works Honda gears that were also ti, and the fact that CRP does a lot of the tranny
gears for the various F1 teams.

I got the idea from my CR500.  I was fortunate enough to aquire an HGA works close
ratio tranny for it.  When I put it all together, I was amazed how light the assembly was
compared to the "boat anchor" stocker.  I had both gear sets REMed to strengthen the ti
(and steel) as well as reduce the friction by a significant amount.  The CR500 runs so much
cooler and quieter with that process and the lighter by far transmission produces a distinctly
different power delivery and feel compared to stock.  The obvious downside is lack of
replacement parts should either engine ever need new gears.

dogger   
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by ' »